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Offline eod20

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golf ball or soda can ?
« on: July 11, 2011, 03:05:29 PM »
 
    want to get into a BP mortar with no prior experience - should i be looking at a golf ball or a soda can mortar?  i really like the dictator and the 10" seacoast made by dominick.   where do i start - other than here - to learn this art?  what am i looking at in terms of powder usage and range vs projo availability - will a sand filled soda can fly of expand in the tube and go boom.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 03:18:15 PM »
Maybe start with a strong golf ball mortar (like a M1844 seacoast mortar versus a Coehorn) using golf balls and graduate to using the Fox Steel golf balls eventually.

Mortars are not voluminous powder users until you start launching bowling balls.

I would expect a sand filled soda can to burst at launch.  Heavy loads will cause the concrete ones to break up in the bore.
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Offline keith44

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 03:30:14 PM »
Ok, now I gotta ask.  I've seen the coehorn mortars, as well as what some call a siege mortar, what is a seacoast mortar?  What makes one better or stronger than another?
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Offline eod20

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 04:26:36 PM »
i have no special knowledge of them keith - i wastaking the names from the product /sponser web pages for their products. but - nd please correct me if i am wrong, anyone - the coehon and dictator were battlefield and seige weapons and the seacoast were to attack ships thru the wooden decks and bypass the iron side armour of the time.   i was basing my choice on what looks good to me, not any tech. data.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 04:31:27 PM »
The primary difference (besides use) is the amount of metal in one.  The seacoast mortars were the heaviest, consequently they had the greatest range because they used the heaviest charge and they were the least mobile of the three types.  The Coehorn was the lightest and most mobile and shortest range one and the siege mortars were in between. 

Although the Coehorn chamber has the requisite wall thickness = chamber diameter, I feel more comfortable launching the steel Fox balls from a mortar of heavier construction.
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2011, 04:34:51 PM »
The seacoast mortar is much beefier than any cohorn plus they are 13" dia. bore !
 
I would agree with George ,get a good solid golfball mortar ,they use little powder and you can shoot fox balls (steel) at some point .
 
Gary
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Offline gunsonwheels

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2011, 04:38:15 PM »
If I were just getting into the BP idiocy... (my kids used to call my work "Dad's idiot projects"):
 
I'd buy or check out at the library a copy of the book by Warren Ripley, "Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War" and from there I would send $ to AOP (Antique Ordnance Publishers) and purchase the drawings for the piece(s) I think I want to buy.  That way I will see exactly what the originals were, I will be armed with more of the right questions for any potential vendor, and I will substantially reduce the risk of being suprised by what gets delivered in relationship to what I think I had ordered.
 
A few more (but lesser) $ on the front end... but much greater assurance of being fully satisfied and NOT suprised with the delivered and subsequently fired product.
 
Also:
What the original was in terms of looks and bore, you will need to translate for yourself what that means after a builder has scaled everything down to shoot soda cans or golfballs.  Scaling a Seacoast vs scaling a Coehorn... to assume one will be bigger and better because the original was a huge seacoast gun and the other a two-man crewed field gun may very well turn out to be a false assumption.  As a builder myself (for myself) I will scale the bore to one scale and the exterior to another... For example, for a pool ball mortar copy of a Coehorn, I scaled to .4 for the bore and powder chamber but raised the exterior scaled dimensions to .45 to both fit some 4" stock and to give an added margin of metal/safety.  My walls are just as thick it not thicker than a scaled 13" Seacoast when going down to a golfball sized mortar.
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2011, 05:02:28 PM »
Quote from: eod20 on July 11, 2011, 03:05:29 PM

    want to get into a BP mortar with no prior experience - should i be looking at a golf ball or a soda can mortar? 
...

YES!  Either caliber.

 Look at availabilty of ammo, range where you are going to shoot (100-200yds for either), ease of cleaning/caring for and STYLE that you like.

My first (1974-75) I turned from a billet of hot rolled steel - took months.  Soda-can caliber.  For years just filled 'em with water.  Sand or concrete filled works well too.

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Offline GGaskill

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2011, 06:54:13 PM »
Here are muzzle images of two golf ball bore mortars.  The first one is a Coehorn.



The second one is an 1844 Seacoast.


Which style would you want to use for the heavier charges?
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Offline gunsonwheels

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2011, 06:50:39 PM »
I sometimes fail miserably as a communicator...
 
What I was trying to say is the view you identify as an 1844  Seacoast could just as well be machined on it's OD to look like a Coehorn if it had the step on the muzzle face.  Heavy, fat walls, undersized bore but nevertheless it could be a Coehorn lookalike from the outside.  I guess maybe what I posted didn't come out that way up above... :-[ 
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2011, 07:16:24 PM »
I understood exactly what you were trying to say and my recommendation would be that if you want a large diameter (say 4") mortar, you could go with an 1844 seacoast in golf ball bore or a Coehorn in soda can bore.  While it's obviously possible to make a Coehorn with really thick walls, to me, at least, it's not really a Coehorn then.  If you want a thick walled mortar, use a thick walled prototype.

The following is a beer can Coehorn in 4" diameter stock.

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Offline gunsonwheels

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2011, 07:44:16 PM »
Wow... that surely is a beautiful piece!   Few go to that much effort on the finishing.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2011, 08:34:23 PM »
It was a gift to a friend at work and I wanted it complete.  Here is a link to a thread discussing it.
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Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2011, 09:16:29 PM »
When I first got interested in mortars, I bought a beercan mortar. A couple of years down the road I got a golfball mortar. I love them both; but, prefer the beercan a little more than the golfball. Whichever one you decide on; down the road you'll probably end up getting the other size of mortar, too. Such is the addiction!
Good luck with whatever you choose.
 
Cannons are another story.  ::)   :o
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Offline Tod0987

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2011, 06:39:33 PM »
Welcome eod20 to the addiction ;D
 
Not to hyjack and I think it could help the thread, but are there any sponsors that are making a golf ball seacoast mortar? It takes a decent lathe to turn a roughly 5" picece of steel.
 
I have friends that join me in shooting my 1" coehorn, but they suffer from CSS syndrome (can't see  ::) )  while I can see the ball, they can't and figure a painted golfball or hopefully fox ball would be more visiable. 
 
I'm still deciding on 1841 10"  or 1861 "dictator" design...
 
Thanks,
 
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Offline eod20

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2011, 06:48:22 PM »
its not a hyjack at all    i think we are thinking the same     i have a touch of that c.s.s. also    i just love the 10 inch 1841 seacoast bed   but that plain old fat tube just kills it for me,   i wat to put a slightly longer and i think much sexier 1804 barrel on it,    and i have decided on the soda can bore.
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Online Double D

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2011, 07:02:22 PM »
To see golf balls, try reducing your load,  Popcans work fine for watching also.  If you are shooting golf balls and popcans and can't see them you are grossly over loading. 

We were launching  popcans the 4th of July and you could follow them all the way out to 400 yards and beyond
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Offline Tod0987

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2011, 07:13:33 PM »
Quote from: Double D on July 14, 2011, 07:02:22 PM
To see golf balls, try reducing your load,  Popcans work fine for watching also.  If you are shooting golf balls and popcans and can't see them you are grossly over loading. 

We were launching  popcans the 4th of July and you could follow them all the way out to 400 yards and beyond

I'm currently shooting 1" OD 3oz lead cannonball sinkers sprayed black for contrast based on Dom's loadout. No golfballs yet. Hoping the increase in OD will increase visibility. 
 
I would love to upgrade to popcan eventually...
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Online Double D

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Re: golf ball or soda can ?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2011, 07:59:18 PM »
Yeah those small 1 inch balls are tough to see,
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