handgun scope eye relief ?

[j350hp]

hello all i have a handgun scope question. i have been looking at the simmons 4x32 pro hunter for hand gun and it says it has a eye relief of 20 inches. now does that mean i will get full sight picture at 20 inches or anywhere from the scope to 20 inches. kinda confused on subject any info would help.

[longwinters]

I don't think so.  My experience has been that if the eye relief is "variable" like on a Burris, you can get a good eye picture from say 13-20" and they show it in the specs.  If they only say 20" you are going to be very stretched out so as to use the scope on a revolver "free hand" or your SSP. 
 
Long

[j350hp]

guess i can call simmon because it only says 20 inch eye relief and no minimum.

[rockbilly]

Simmons specifications on this scope is 11-20 inch eye relief. I have two of them; they are set (adjusted) at about 18 inches.  I wouldn’t put them in the same class as my Burris or Leopold scopes, but it’s not a bad choice for the money.

[j350hp]

u can adjust the eye relief that is new to me to

[rockbilly]

What I was referring to is the adjustment on the reticle image located on the rear of the scope.  You do this by loosening the eye bell lock-ring and rotating the eyepiece in either direction a few turns until the focus of the reticle is clear. (on most scopes turning the eyepiece clockwise increases the eye relief and turning it counterclockwise decreases it.)   Handguns are more forgiving than rifles but this step is necessary on either for maximum performance.

[williamlayton]

Now--I have only shot one gun with a scope so I am not a definitive source of information.
I shot better groups without the scope---bench rest at 50 yards---than with the scope.
The eye relief just does not work for my eyes.
Blessings

[Frank2]

My experience with scopes on handguns is limited to Leupold 2X & 4X.  As was mentioned, with this brand, loosening the lock ring on the eyepiece and moving it back will increase magnification and lower eye relief - good for offhand and bench work.  Laying down Creedmore with the pistol further out you will see a large dark donut with the sight picture in the middle.  To fix, move the eye piece forward, the picture increases and no donut. Magnification will be lowered.  So if you have Leupold 2X, forget Creedmore.  Your target will be a tiny little image.  Creedmore with Leupold needs at least 4X.  But now when you go offhand, 4X is a lot. 


The best overall solution is the Ultradot sight.  No need to fiddle with the eyepiece, it is constant good eye relief, 1X is good out to any handgun distance, it is tough and backed by good service and warranty.  Good service means they don't try to mess with you.  Some companies are adversarial and hostile.  I think Leupold is more hostile than before.  They are corporate and stingy.  Ultradot on the other hand seems more committed to winning credibility, at least currently.  They are using the old Japanese model of business ethics.  If they do good for you, you will come back vs the typical corporate American model of we've got your money now, #$%^& you.  Things do change though.  But it is good to notice and mention the service publicly to weed out those corporate mentalities who just want to suck the money out of your wallet.   

[rockbilly]

William, you have to admit, when one gets to our age they start looking for a “brail” scope………..you can’t see so you have to feel before shooting.

I have scopes on several of the more frequently used contender barrels, the others I shoot with open sights.  I don’t see as well as I use to so the scope does help on longer shots, still I limit my shots at game to no more than 50-75 yards.

I haven’t tried any of the other sights such as the Ultradot, but after all the good reports I'm hearing may look into putting one on a barrel for a try.

[BCB]

What I was referring to is the adjustment on the reticle image located on the rear of the scope.  You do this by loosening the eye bell lock-ring and rotating the eyepiece in either direction a few turns until the focus of the reticle is clear. (on most scopes turning the eyepiece clockwise increases the eye relief and turning it counterclockwise decreases it.)   Handguns are more forgiving than rifles but this step is necessary on either for maximum performance.

Ain't gonna disagree, but you are merely focusing the 'scope when you turn the eye piece.  It is like a pair of binoculars...
 
Eye relief is the distance from the 'scope that you can get a full view--or NO black edges.  The lower the power, the greater the eye relief...
 
Turning the focus will do nothing for eye relief and a full field of view in the 'scope...
 
It will make the crosshairs clearer...
 
BCB

[Frank2]

BCB:

Ain't gonna disagree, but you are merely focusing the 'scope when you turn the eye piece.  It is like a pair of binoculars... Eye relief is the distance from the 'scope that you can get a full view--or NO black edges.  The lower the power, the greater the eye relief... Turning the focus will do nothing for eye relief and a full field of view in the 'scope... It will make the crosshairs clearer...
BCB

I know what you're thinking.  That's what it says in the Owner's Manual.  But what I described is what reality is!  In some ways it's a gain.  Turning the eyepiece has a huge effect.  I can prove it.   I can post pictures both ways, but that's extra work on my part.  Ask anybody with a Leupold handgun scope what happens when you turn the eyepiece.  You change eye relief as needed by turning the eye piece. 

[BCB]

BCB:

Ain't gonna disagree, but you are merely focusing the 'scope when you turn the eye piece.  It is like a pair of binoculars... Eye relief is the distance from the 'scope that you can get a full view--or NO black edges.  The lower the power, the greater the eye relief... Turning the focus will do nothing for eye relief and a full field of view in the 'scope... It will make the crosshairs clearer...
BCB

I know what you're thinking.  That's what it says in the Owner's Manual.  But what I described is what reality is!  In some ways it's a gain.  Turning the eyepiece has a huge effect.  I can prove it.   I can post pictures both ways, but that's extra work on my part.  Ask anybody with a Leupold handgun scope what happens when you turn the eyepiece.  You change eye relief as needed by turning the eye piece.

So be it...
 
That would mean you have infinite eye relief on all powers and all distances, i.e. a full field of view no matter what the distance the 'scope is from the eye--Leupold must really have something amazing.  So on say 10 or 12 power, I can adjust to have my eye 20 inches from the 'scope and still have a full field of view at 100 yards?...
 
Guess my 6 Burris 'scopes need traded for Leupold--but that ain't gonna happen...
 
BCB

[Frank2]

I said Leupold handgun scope.  Not rifle.

[BCB]

I said Leupold handgun scope.  Not rifle.

And that's exactly what I am talking about...
 
Burris hanggun 'scopes...
 
Handgun 'scopes go even higher than 12x...
 
2x 'scopes do have greater flexability with eye relief, but it is still limited...
 
I do have one Leupold 4x handgun 'scope.  So I will need to try increasing eye relief by turning the eye peice...
 
But, I am not expecting any miracles...
 
BCB

[Frank2]

BCB:

I do have one Leupold 4x handgun 'scope.  So I will need to try increasing eye relief by turning the eye peice... But, I am not expecting any miracles...
BCB

Sometimes the lock ring gets loose with recoil, so I have to keep checking it.  With the red dot you need to fiddle with the switch.

[bfrshooter]

William, you have to admit, when one gets to our age they start looking for a “brail” scope………..you can’t see so you have to feel before shooting.

I have scopes on several of the more frequently used contender barrels, the others I shoot with open sights.  I don’t see as well as I use to so the scope does help on longer shots, still I limit my shots at game to no more than 50-75 yards.

I haven’t tried any of the other sights such as the Ultradot, but after all the good reports I'm hearing may look into putting one on a barrel for a try.

Hee, hee, that has to be the niftiest thing I ever read, a scope you need to feel! 

[williamlayton]

Well now---in my old age I find myownself lacking in the skills I had as a youth----sneaking up on em and cutting their throats. 
Braille--hum. Bet one of these days there will be a laser, target dsignating scope that will hone in on the heartbeat--al you have to do is hold the scope on the heartbeat and the scope will figger out the distance, drop and apply all the variables----BANG!
Now that is going to be a problem though--and a real danger-It won't be able to distinguisn between a Deer heatbeat or human.
There is really no hope for us old folks.
Blessings

[bfrshooter]

Unfortunately, Frank is correct.
The eyepiece on a pistol scope does not focus the cross hairs well but has a larger affect on power and eye relief.
Power settings on a variable will also change eye relief too much.
Long eye relief scopes are also very dark in the early morning and late evening, to the point you will see deer but not the cross hairs or the deer through the scope.
The light from the exit pupil disperses and scatters before it reaches your eye. Turning up the power reduces the exit pupil even more. You need at least 5mm at your eye, not at the eyepiece of the scope. That means the scope must be very bright with a large exit pupil to start with.
Bright rifle scopes have large objectives to gather way more light then what the eye can use and it is the only way to see good in dim light.

[BCB]

Unfortunately, Frank is correct.
The eyepiece on a pistol scope does not focus the cross hairs well but has a larger affect on power and eye relief.
Power settings on a variable will also change eye relief too much.
Long eye relief scopes are also very dark in the early morning and late evening, to the point you will see deer but not the cross hairs or the deer through the scope.
The light from the exit pupil disperses and scatters before it reaches your eye. Turning up the power reduces the exit pupil even more. You need at least 5mm at your eye, not at the eyepiece of the scope. That means the scope must be very bright with a large exit pupil to start with.
Bright rifle scopes have large objectives to gather way more light then what the eye can use and it is the only way to see good in dim light.

I think in the beginning of this topic, we were discussing gaining eye relief by turning the eye piece.  I still say it isn't so...
 
As far a variables, eye relief certainly does decrease as power is increased...
 
But, since the eye piece, if turned, increases eye relief, refer to my #11 post and answer how much gain in eye relief will I get on my Burris variable handgun 'scope on, say 8x, if I turn the eye piece?...
 
Can I gain 1" or 10" of eye relief--or is it an indefinate amount?...
 
I think none at best or maybe a bit if one has an imagination...
 
(The light gathering stuff has nothing to do with eye relief--full field of view is what eye relief is all about--distance from the eye piece and still get a full field of view)...
 
BCB

[bfrshooter]

Unfortunately, Frank is correct.
The eyepiece on a pistol scope does not focus the cross hairs well but has a larger affect on power and eye relief.
Power settings on a variable will also change eye relief too much.
Long eye relief scopes are also very dark in the early morning and late evening, to the point you will see deer but not the cross hairs or the deer through the scope.
The light from the exit pupil disperses and scatters before it reaches your eye. Turning up the power reduces the exit pupil even more. You need at least 5mm at your eye, not at the eyepiece of the scope. That means the scope must be very bright with a large exit pupil to start with.
Bright rifle scopes have large objectives to gather way more light then what the eye can use and it is the only way to see good in dim light.

I think in the beginning of this topic, we were discussing gaining eye relief by turning the eye piece.  I still say it isn't so...
 
As far a variables, eye relief certainly does decrease as power is increased...
 
But, since the eye piece, if turned, increases eye relief, refer to my #11 post and answer how much gain in eye relief will I get on my Burris variable handgun 'scope on, say 8x, if I turn the eye piece?...
 
Can I gain 1" or 10" of eye relief--or is it an indefinate amount?...
 
I think none at best or maybe a bit if one has an imagination...
 
(The light gathering stuff has nothing to do with eye relief--full field of view is what eye relief is all about--distance from the eye piece and still get a full field of view)...
 
BCB

It is very little as is the focus ability. The pistol scope is very handicapped in every way. Don't expect huge changes with any adjustment other then field of view with power changes. 

[BCB]

That's exactly what I have been saying since the beginning!!!...
 
But, some still indicate eye relief can be changed by turning the eye peice...
 
And so it goes...
 
BCB

[bfrshooter]

Scope position and distance to the eye is important if you shoot from bags, off hand or Creedmore because all will have a different distance to your eye.
You can alter it a little with the adjustment but then it will throw it off in other positions.
I gave up on scopes for hunting and use only red dots.