The dreaded 9mm

[anachronism]

In all the years I've been casting, one cartridge stands out as the biggest pain of all, the dreaded 9mm Luger, parabellum, whatever. It seems to me to almost be a waste of time to cast for this turkey and get decent terminal performance out of it. This is the only caliber I've ever cast for that still leads even when you have all your ducks in a row. Now, I'm ready to take another stab at it. I know Veral offers 9mm moulds, and I'm most interested in one around 140 grains or so. I would be using it for games like bowling pins and so-called "practical shooting. I could probably get by with one of the commercial moulds, but I don't like what I see there. Besides, my 45 ACP LFN needs a little brother to pick on. Veral, what do you suggest? I need something capable of moving a bowling pin about 2 feet, whether it likes it or not (they don't). My velocity target is 1000 fps, which is certainly doable. The possiblity of more velocity is always nice, but 9mm pressures can get scary pretty quickly. I'm especially looking for minimal case intrusion in deference to the blasted tapered case. I have tried cranking up the velocities of 124 gr bullets in the past, but accuracy goes away pretty quickly. With jacketed bullets around $20.00/box (scandalous!), it's time to show the 9mm who's boss, once and for all. I'm even willing to consider gas checks this time around, which seems a shame because at this bullet weight the 9mm is at best a 38 spl with a high cap magazine.

[Veral]

  You are on the right track by choosing a 140 gr bullet, as the lower velocity and longer bearing length compared to the more normal  lighter bullets will help accuracy and hold velocity down a little to help minimize leading. 

  A very important factor is to be sure bullet diameter is large enough to get the chamber well filled, and for sure to fill the barrels groove diameter, which is very commonly way oversize.  I've measured them up to 362 diameter, and MANY at 357-8 diameter.  Blow a 355 bullet through that hole and you'll get buckshot groups and leading which will make you call the cartridge 'The dreaded 9mm!"

  If your gun isn't a stubborn feeder, be sure to get a sample or two of my FN bullet to try.  If they will feed, this profile will be the best live target bullet you can stuff the gun with.

  Don't forget that gas checks are the bigggest forgiver of problems with cast bullets.  If you want to get a mold that will just flat perform from the git go, and don't intend to shoot so much that gas check cost is prohibitive, consider a gc design.  A big plus will be a few more fps with any given bullet weight/powder charge, and that accompanied by lower chamber pressure.  In other words gas checked bullets will milk more power out of the tiny cartridge than will a pb.

[anachronism]

Let's see, jacketed bullets are about 20 cents each (ouch). Gaschecks are about a tenth of that. The economics are certainly there, as is the performance level. I kind of hate to wuss out and order a gascheck mould, but it does make sense. It's time to do impact slugs for my 9mms and see exactly what we have to work with.

I've tried to help other casters sort out 9mm cast bullet failures, and I've had a few of my own, too. A lot of new casters want to start out casting for 9mm, and it gets frustrating really quick for them. The bore diameter issue baffles a lot of them, and the 9mm seems to me to be the bore leading champion of the world. I don't know if it's the twist rate, coupled with the dimensional issues, but I've seen a lot of guys bail on casting 9mm. I've been casting for decades, and I needed to take a vacation from 9mm too. It doesn't help that it's one of my least favorite calibers, but it's necessary in certain competitions.

[docmagnum357]

I have had all the same problems.  Also, I have he same attitude towards the 9mm;  If you do get it shooting with the 140 odd grain bullet, what have you got?  A high cap 38 is exactly right. Do tell how this works out , though.   I am also in need of a good cast 9mm load, although for different reasons.  SOOOO many of my students buy 9mm, I need one to shoot , too. 
Personally, I 'll stick to a 44 mag, loaded with Elmer's 44 special load, and either one of Elmer's bllets, one of veral's bullets, or a Lyman Devastator on deer under 150 lbs and all varmints I don'rt want to skin.

[calvon]

I've been loading plain base cast in a 9mm for about ten years. I use a 140 grain flat nose made from straight water-dropped wheelweights in a LBT mold which in turn was made for this particular Ruger P89. I had leading problems until I fire lapped the barrel. I use a moderate load of AA#7 that pushes the bullet across the chronograph at a tad over 1,000 fps. A few passes with a bronze brush followed by a tight fitting patch saturated with BreakFree strips out what little leading I'm getting. Accuracy is as good (probably better) than I can hold the gun.

[chutesnreloads]

Wanting to try this too.Been looking at some RNFP's sized to .357".Don't need power just cheap accuracy.

[anachronism]

If you don't cast, buy bullets sized .358 or larger, which should be simple to find. They will probably work "as is", but if you must have .357, buy a LEE cast bullet sizing kit in .357 and size them down yourself. One caveat: the words "cheap" and "accurate" are often mutually exclusive terms. I've always gotten what I paid for, if I pay for crap, that's what arrives. Often to my dismay. This is why I ended up casting for myself. GIGO, as the nerds say...

[Veral]

  I've now forgotten what I wrote previously in this post, but don't believe I told anything about my only 9MM loading experiance.  It was with 2 Rugers which I bought for a couple neighbor brothers.  I made up a mold with my SA bullet in 120 gr, sized to fit the oversize barrels, which required a diameter of .360 as I recall.  Using air cooled ww bullets over jacketed bullet charges for that weight bullet, there was no load development for either gun.  both shot the same loads, and grouped most shots on a normal sized real estate sign about 350 yards from their house, once they got the range. guestimated.  They never cleaned any lead from the barrels that I knew of, and shot thousands of rounds playing around like teen age boys do when they can make their own for free.

  Based on this experiance, and the barrels weren't lapped because they slugged perfect using LBT push through slugs, I'm convinced that most 9MM leading and inaccuracy problems are caused by bullets which are too small for the barrel or chamber, poor lube is used, or the barrel is rough.  Exactly the same causes of poor performance as in other calibers.  The gun is a whimp with the stoutest  loads it is designed for.