Other fillers in the 45-70 lower loads

[tacotime]

Going to try some lower IMR4198 loads in the 45-70, in the 28 to 31 grain range with a 350 cast.
 
That brings up the filler question.  I see that polyester is falling out of favor.  Paul Mathews apparently used cornmeal and cream of wheat, among other things.  What are your thoughts about that stuff?  And do you think it will help a 4198 load at this level?

[stimpylu32]

The real problem that I have with the other type's of fillers ( corn meal & c.o.w. ) is that most don't factor in the weight of the filler , for the 45/70 that could be quite a few more grains in weight that needs to be added to the bullet weight when working up a load .
 
It also changes the case capisity by quite a bit , as the filler takes up space normaly used for either powder or gas expanction .
 
stimpy

[Larry Gibson]

All 'wads" are falling out of favor.  However, when used as a 'filler" polyester or Dacron works exceptionally well.  Suggest a 3/4 - 1 gr piece used as a filler.  I use lots of dacron in the 45-70 and other cartridges as a filler.  Have for years because it works and is quite safe.
 
Larry Gibson

[.22-5-40]

Hello, tacotime.  Let me tell you my experiance with fillers.  I was experimenting with a lighter than normal cast bullet (275grs.) in a .40-70 str. (2 1/2")   in a Riflesmith No. 1 long-range, 34" brl. 77' Sharps.  I also was using H4227..a powder I have much experiance with, but never before used in this rifle.  I was looking for a light 100yd. practice load.
  Since this was a "new" powder, I started low, & filled excess space with 1.5gr. Kapok..pulled out to long thin cylinder, & lightly inserted into case.  A .030" Veg. fibre wad was over Kapok & under bullet base.  I didn't compress Kapok any way..the act of bullet seating pushed it to final place.
    At range, I fired first start load..recoil light, but normal, bullet impact was very low on backer..normal for such a light loading.  Blew thru brl..lots of smoke, but clear.  Next shot also fired like first..sound & recoil the same.. bullet impact still low, near first shot.  blew thru bore & still black!  First thought was that smoke sure was thick in there.  Took rod & pushed in breech..obstruction right at chamber end.  Not wanting to push what I thought was a stuck bullet thru 34" brl., I reversed rod..and thought maybe that 2nd. hole was there on backer all along?
    I couldn't believe what came out that breech...looking for all the world like an old style over-powder shotgun wad..that long Kapok filler was compressed into a firm 1/4" thick .40 wad..with the fiber wad at front!
    Now my question is..how did that wad and filler end up at the breech end of a 34" long brl. AFTER the bullet exited bore??  Could a very low muzzle pressure due to the light fast burning charge of H4227 in that long brl. have allowed the wads to have been sucked back into bore when bullet base cleared muzzle?  After this experiance, I have given up on fillers over smokeless.

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont use fillers period. Ive never seen where they were needed. especially with a powder with a mid range burning speed like 4198. Heck ive loaded 3 grains of bulllseye in a 4570 case with no filler and got great results.

[Buckwheat Jack]

I shoot 24 to 28 grains IMR4198 under a 450 grain cast bullet, no filler. I sometimes shoot 9 to 10 grains of Unique with the same bullet and no filler. No problems.

[tacotime]

I keep seeing those for and against, with the against leading a bit. 
 
I don't like the idea of melting what seems like plastic into the barrel in any case.  Not sure what happens to things like oatmeal, cornmeal or cream of wheat on firing, but that would seem less offensive than melted plastic but still the source of another foreign material onto the bore surface before the next bullet comes out.
 
Think I'll continue with these moderate low end loads without going too low and without fillers for now, and maybe try to remember to tip up the muzzle before firing.
 
Thanks!

[jhalcott]

 My Grand father used old navy life jacket filling , he'd pull them apart and use the for "stuffing" in some old guns he had. That "stuffing" was Kapoc fibers. He rung a few chambers with it. I have used Dupont fiber fill also known as polyester pillow stuffing. It does not melt in the barrel as far as I can tell.I haven't damaged any guns with it yet. Many guys think the filling has to be tamped down onto the powder. It should be a piece that FILLS the space between the charge and case mouth.Being "compressed" by the seating of the bullet. This might be any where from half to a grain or more of fiberfill. Those larger amounts will be found a few feet in front of the firing point on calm days. These days there are far better powder choices to use as Black powder substitutes than the filler requiring charges of yesteryear!  I once put a charge of pistol powder in a glass test tube, then filled the rest with cream of wheat and plugged the top as snugly as I could. I carried that tube for about one week, Looking at it frequently. After that week was up, I could see where the powder/cow was mixing thruout the tube. IF the powder is fine enough to filter thru the FILLER, it WILL!

[shot1]

Get you some Accurate 5744 and forget about fillers. I have found nothing more accurate with a properly cast and lubed bullet for smokeless powder in my 45-70.

[BBF]

I stopped using fillers myself.
 
 When Iused fillers it was plain cotton ball material using whatever amount I needed to fill the space with light pressure to keep the powder in place. 45-70, 444 Marlin and 30-06. with cast bullets only

[LanceR]

Gentlemen, Ive never used fillers so I sure can't help with the OP's question but I have a question of my own.  Why wouldn't you just use a less dense powder like Trailboss and forget about the filler altogether?

Then you wouldn't have any of the issues from fillers.

Lance

[BBF]

Lance:
 
Trail Boss is a fairly recent development and their top loads are not producing the velocities that some other powders within the reduced spectrum can achieve.