45LC Ruger keyholes with cowboy loads.

[butchen]

 I have a Ruger 4 5/8" and at 15 yards cowboy loads from this one company keyhole with me, not all but maybe half. This is the 2nd box of them that is doing it. Now I have never put the other brands of cowboy loads on paper. I have just moved to a place that has a shooting range. It is also making 8" groups with them and I could at least hit what I was shooting at with the other brands. So I got some standard jacketed long colt loads and they grouped great then I got out Buffalo Bore 325 LBT loads and shot 3 shots and it group just over an inch free handed. (Didn't shoot but three for two reasons one the size of the group and the price of the rounds. Oh and they hurt too......lol.......just a joke there not to bad.) So back to the subject has anyone had this problem and is there anything I can do. BTW: it is name brand ammo.

[SHOOTALL]

Have you checked the dia. of the bullets ? May be the one that dosen't shoot well is smaller or larger. Also how hard are they ? What is the velosity ? all these things matter. What brand ? Its nothing new for one manf. to have a load that dosen't work in certian guns. Could be a bad lot.

[butchen]

they are Winchester cowboy action loads 45lc 250gr lead flat nose. In the there old looking box. They read .451 or .452 I dont have my bullet puller so I can't get a true reading. And I didn't think of clocking them. As for hardness you got me there as I didn't make them so I have no idea how hard they are. Yea thought it may be the lots but just checking if anyone had this problem. K thought at first it may have been the timing. But the jacketed bullets did so good I don't think so. Thanks

[SHOOTALL]

mine shot the one box of Winchester about as good as anything else. If the rifling is light it might not shoot lead as well as jacketed.

[butchen]

that is a good point the lead may be so soft it just skips over the rifling. thanks

[butchen]

after looking at my spent shells I saw that there was a lot of blow by, the cases were black on about half of the shells. Do you think that I was not getting a good seal and there for low pressure and not getting a stable bullet flight and keyholeing? Just a thought. Thanks

[hillbill]

my reloads with cast and red dot have smoky cases. and its not a  light load at all.they are very accurate, well until they lead the forceing cone.i think i have chamber throat issues. havent got into it yet. a couple passes with copper wool just clears it rite up.

[mechanic]

You have too small a bullet for the rifling.  Slug the bore and you will then know exactly what you need.
 
Most all leading is caused by undersized bullets, not lead composition or velocity.  Same is true of accuracy problems with lead.
 
Let us know how it works out!
 
Ben

[butchen]

mechanic: thanks but I don't reload right now just getting over a sickness and just getting back into shooting. this was factory ammo. I didn't have a bullet puller so I can't get a good read on the bullets in the rounds. when I was reloading lead all the time I did slug every gun I used but this is one post reloading so I have no idea. I think going to jacketed bullets will do the trick for me and at least I know that the big bad buffalo bore bullets shoot good in it. I do think your right it would prob do better with .452 to .454 over the normal .451. and if or when I get back to reloading I will slug it. but now the jacketed store ammo will do.

thanks so much for taking the time to help me and I will take it to heart as I do all that help.
BTW I'm not having a leading problem but your right a small bullet will lead faster.

[butchen]

hillbill: thanks I think mechanic has my prob. nailed I think I have a large bore and the factory ammo is just to small not getting a good seal with the bullet not the case. or I may have a bad batch of ammo. right now I will just stick with jacketed rounds. till I get back into reloading.

[Graybeard]

Bullets might be too small for bore but I think the more likely cause is velocity is below the threshold to stabilize the bullet in that short barrel. CAS shooters have mostly gone to loads so light they barely get out of the barrel. This is to reduce recoil so they can improve their time in matches.

They are prolly cast and way too dang hard to obturate at the pressure the loads develop and you'd be a whole lot better off at CAS velocities with pure lead than hard cast. I was looking thru a catalog this evening at ammo and noticed Winchester ammo listed as cast bullets. When I picked up my new Ruger Bisley .44 Special I got three boxes of Winchester's cheap CAS ammo mostly for the hulls. The bullets in them are hard cast.

[greenrivers]

butchen, you did not mention what the revolver was, but did mention that it shot jacketed well. If the cylinder throats are too small cast will not rebound as well as jacketed and be undersized by the throats. Combine that with the info that Graybeard mentioned and that bullet may be just ratling down the bore.

[butchen]

Graybeard: thanks so much. I think I see a common thread, I need to stay away from cowboy loads (which I was shooting because my godson wanted to shoot it and there like a .22s) and stay with full loads. Got 2 boxes of speer gold dot and a box of cci blazers. Got out in the cool of the morning and shot, just got back. My smallest 3 shot group was under an inch free hand at 15m and largest was just over 2" with both types. Stepped out to 25m and smallest was just a hair under 2" with gold dots (like 1.99" but that's under right lol) and largest was around 4.5" which was the blazer. And no keyholes not even one. Think I am going to stay away from cowboy loads!!!!

ps: I got to get back into reloading!!!

greenrivers: In the subject I put it was a 45lc Ruger and in the body I put it was a 4 5/8". I assumed that every one would know that I was talking single action. But sorry I didn't think, my bad. Yea its a Ruger 4 5/8 Ruger Blackhawk 45LC, wish it was a Super Blackhawk or a Bisley (I still would have it in a 4 5/8 or a 5 1/2, I like the size), but it's was what I could afford at the time and till the cowboy loads its been a real shooter. Have killed one dear with it with BB 325gr LBT loads at just under 65m. Not a great shot but didn't have to track it but maybe 70 or 80 paces. So I love the little thing. That is why I could not understand why it was keyholeing the loads.

[Lloyd Smale]

the correct answer. Ive seen it before. They try to make 45s recoil like a 22 and they just dont get going fast enough to stablize. Not a consern for cowboy action shooters as most of there targets are at distances measured in feet not yards.

Bullets might be too small for bore but I think the more likely cause is velocity is below the threshold to stabilize the bullet in that short barrel. CAS shooters have mostly gone to loads so light they barely get out of the barrel. This is to reduce recoil so they can improve their time in matches.

They are prolly cast and way too dang hard to obturate at the pressure the loads develop and you'd be a whole lot better off at CAS velocities with pure lead than hard cast. I was looking thru a catalog this evening at ammo and noticed Winchester ammo listed as cast bullets. When I picked up my new Ruger Bisley .44 Special I got three boxes of Winchester's cheap CAS ammo mostly for the hulls. The bullets in them are hard cast.

[butchen]

Lloyd: thanks I know for sure that was my last box of cowboy loads my godson can shoot them up and I will stick to jacketed or better cast loads.

[butchen]

this is with BB 325gr. at 15m freehanded