optima pro

[little red]

i reciently purchased a cva optima pro, 45 cal. I would like to know what type powder and bullet to use. I'm interested in deer hunting and range shooting at 100 to 150 yards

[little red]

I'll answer part of my own question to help other optima pro users. I could not get my optima to shoot a group, no matter what i tried. I was using 80  gr of 777 pwd and any bullet i could get ahold of. I could not shoot a group. After about 70 dollars and no luck,i decided to back track. I bought some pryo pellet, cci primers, and 295 gr powerbelts.  I spit patched my barrol between every shot. It was like someone waved a magic wand. The group was about 2 inches as 50 yards. The only shot that was not in the group was the first shot after a good cleaning. It would shoot 6 inches high. Now i can try 777 pellets and some different bullet to try to get the group even better.

[little red]

I've now shot over 200 times and can shoot a 4-5 inch group at 92 yards. I'm using 175 gr powerbelts and 2 pyrodex pellets, a bench rest and a scope. I spit patch between each shot. If i clean the gun, i shoot one shot to fowl the barrol. I shoot a 45 caliber.

[Underclocked]

I do believe I would be asking CVA for a new barrel.

[Hound_Dog55]

I have been thinking about the Optima Pro myself only in .50 . Seems I have read where the 45 isnt a tight shot grouper and the 50 is. Anywho I am waiting for a while to see who else comes out with a nice break action.

[Triple Se7en]

"I've now shot over 200 times and can shoot a 4-5 inch group at 92 yards. I'm using 175 gr powerbelts and 2 pyrodex pellets, a bench rest and a scope.
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Not good Little Red!

If I were you, I'd get the scope checked -- remove any seasoning bore butter you might have in the barrel -- then try a sabot/bullet like XTP around 200 grains.

If those three don't cure it, your barrel is sick & needs CVA tech medicine.

[big6x6]

I'll agree to trying the 200gr XTP .45 cal sabot.  Also, I've never found the lightest Powerbelts in any caliber to be that accurate.  I'd try a 275gr Powerbelt copper-clad and a 200gr .45 XTP over two Pyrodex pellets spit swabbing between shots.  

Also, if you have not done so, I'd remove the bases and Loc-Tite the screws and allow to dry.  Then re-install a scope of known quality.

If that doesn't work, send it back.

[RandyWakeman]

I've now shot over 200 times and can shoot a 4-5 inch group at 92 yards. I'm using 175 gr powerbelts and 2 pyrodex pellets, a bench rest and a scope. I spit patch between each shot. If i clean the gun, i shoot one shot to fowl the barrol. I shoot a 45 caliber.

I'll vote for sending it back. The Optima has had a tortured, harried entrance into muzzleloading. It took no less than FOUR barrels in the Optima I had to get one that showed promise of decent accuracy.

The first several thousand have been reported with very heavy (12 - 15 lb.) triggers. Originally, the Optima was touted as having the advantage of economical, interchangeable .45, .50 caliber, and 12 ga. blackpowder barrels.

Unfortunately, the current production barrels do not always fit the earlier actions.

The CVA / BPI "Winchester Apex," also rushed into production-- has been reported to have severely heavy (10, 12, 15, 17 pound !) triggers as well. The Optima has sold well-- the Apex, at a price point too close for comfort to the American made T/C Omega, has not done nearly as well. It appears to be doomed to poor market penetration, as savvy muzzleloaders know it is little more than just another Spanish, imported CVA gun with a Winchester decal on it.

[Hound_Dog55]

The CVA Optima Pro Rifle

By Randy Wakeman

http://www.chuckhawks.com/optima_pro.htm


Why the change of heart Randy???





Edited to prevent copyright violation.

[RandyWakeman]

Easy-- more information, more guns, more feedback, more experience.

I'm not a fan of CVA's misleading marketing approaches, and their problematic barrel proofs, etc. Nevertheless, when I review a gun, I try my damn best to be objective. Those reading my reviews on the Chuck Hawks site would be hard-pressed to miss the articles on "Unsafe Muzzleloaders?" that add some context. It is all on the same page.

The first test gun sent to me for testing was a super-heavy triggered model. I was assured that this was the "exception" by CVA, not the rule. The second gun had a better trigger. That 3-1/2" group was the "BEST"-- not an average. I worked like a dog to get it there, shooting that gun every day for a week. For the money, for a 50 yard avg. shot at game, the Optima will kill a deer.

BUT The danger of one incident reporting has crept in. One gun, one testing sequence. My examples were tested before the Optimas were available for sale to the general public. Later, comparing notes with other reviewers, I discovered that my heavy-triggered monster was the rule, not the exception.

The gentleman who was sent this same gun after I finished testing it, who is on this very board, got nothing better than 5" groups-- and he is a VERY competent, experienced muzzleloader. A replacement barrel was sent to him by CVA-- it did NOT FIT the action, and popped open with the slightest bump. Not good.

The gun went back to CVA AGAIN, and was replaced AGAIN-- apparently, a new gun, updated action, with only the original sights remaining. That gun showed promise with light test-firing.

I really don't care to inflict another Optima on myself, though it appears there have been running production changes. A best group of 3-1/2" should tell people something-- if they compare it to the Encore test, that shot Powerbelts @ 1" out of the box, the Omega that was a 1-1/4" gun, the Austin & Hallecks that are 1" guns, and the Knight Elite-- that was, and is a 1/2" MOA (or better) gun.

So, I should update that review-- whether a first-year gun, car, whatever-- a test sample of one gun is very limiting, and though I put several hundred rounds through a gun in testing, it just is not the same as multiple year, long-term test-- with several identical test guns.

[Hound_Dog55]

An update to your review would be a civil thing to do. do a search on the Optima Pro and your review will be at the top of the list. Not everyone reads GB's board. (although they should).   You write some very good reviews and my post wasnt meant to be a flame on you. I just wanted to know why your views had changed. maybe you should have put the whole story in your review.

[RandyWakeman]

Civil?

This part should tell the tale:

The comparison made by CVA's ad-copy is versus one of my very favorite in-lines, the Thompson /Center Encore. Surprisingly, the Optima's synthetic camo stock set is far superior to the T/C camo "instant collapse" stock, which was quickly replaced by a solid T/C walnut set. Additionally, the ramrod on the CVA is big step up from the Encore's painful factory rod. However, this gun is in no way related to the Encore. The action is virtually identical to the Harrington and Richardson "Topper" shotgun, and is better described as an H&R "Huntsman" with an Encore style stock. Take the forearm off, and the barrel falls to the ground. Even the telescoping ramrod is "borrowed" from the H &R Huntsman.

Aesthetically, the Optima's cheap looking roll engraving is a small distraction, as is the unappealing (but perfectly functional) trigger guard mounted barrel release (the Topper / Huntsman is an upper tang lever barrel break). I was impressed with the solid synthetic stock of the Winchester X-150, and am equally impressed with the job they have done with the Optima.

The best 100-yard accuracy was in the 3-1/2" range through several shooting sessions, with better groups from the 225-grain Powerbelts and 100 grains of Triple Seven than most anything else. Not awe-inspiring compared the much more accurate Austin & Halleck, Knight Elite, and White rifles tested recently, but adequate hunting accuracy nevertheless. The Optima is also priced far less than these other rifles, starting at well under $200 and has a different intended audience.

I've sent in an update-- but as to what precisely is coming out of a mail-order box at present, that is anybody's guess.

Some CVA owners have reported horrific triggers and 10" accuracy, some (get this) 200 yard 1/2" groups. Where is the truth?

[Hound_Dog55]

Guess its kinda like a lot of things now days. Its a shame everyone building these things, along with everything else, dont take pride in thier work. It's a crap shoot on everything from vehicles to bicycles.

[RandyWakeman]

It is just frustrating. Reviews are naturally opinions, but the whole goal is to offer usable, reliable information-- what the guns do is what they do, little dispute about that area.

But, when QC is so uneven as to causing a "brave new world" everytime you open a box (a Simmons or Nikon scope, now an Optima) the crux of the biscuit is that "your mileage may vary."

I'm far more comfortable pointing folks in the direction of a similarly priced Knight Wolverine-- a more proven inline is not currently manufactured.

[RandyWakeman]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/optima_pro.htm

There we go, Hounddog. That should give folks a clear sense of "buyer beware," particularly on a used Optima. Okay?

It is a pity that such widespread QC problems exist. Sources have related to me that CVA willingly, knowingly, shipped out several full containers of DEFECTIVE-TRIGGERED Optimas to fill pre-orders to grab the cash from 2003 sales.

Apparently, their belief was that most muzzleloading consumers could not tell the difference, and would not send the guns back for service. Few people want to, particularly on lower-cost guns.

Sadly, it appears that CVA was quite right.  :cry:

[Hound_Dog55]

Thanks for updating your review. Maybe it will save someone a little heartache. I really like the design of the Optima line. Cant beat the price either.  How about keeping us informed on the QC if you hear anything else. I will not buy one until CVA gets thier quality control up to par.