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Offline Hit or Miss

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Food storage info
« on: February 09, 2011, 04:49:55 PM »
I'm copying this from another forum, the OP is a person I believe knows his stuff and has lived it.  The topic was "25 #'s of grains and 5 #'s of beans per person per month".

With no fat, you will dry and shrivel up from the inside out.

If you look at the numbers on paper it kind of sums it all up. Having actually lived off rice and beans both with and without oil for extended periods of time I can honestly say most people won't make it by doing too little, too late.

1lb of pinto beans (2 cups dry) cooks to 7 cups of cooked beans.
1 cup of cooked beans is a little more than 200 calories +/-.

1lb of rice makes (2 1/4 cups dry) cooks to roughly 7 cups of cooked rice.
1 cup of cooked rice is about 200 calories.

1 cup each serving of rice and beans fills you up. Read that is you really don't have much more room when the fiber expands. So if you are going to eat anything else with it, it needs to be served with it. Anyway.....


So you eat 3 cups of rice and 3 cups of beans everyday. That's only 1200 calories. You have a complete protien yes, but you have no B12. B12 is the stuff that keeps you sane and without it you die. You NEED animal protien.

Oil/Fat is roughly 120 calories per Tbsp. If you use one serving, 3 times a day, that adds up to 360 calories.

So that means you still only have 1500 calories. You will feel full, but remember ANY activity you do will burn calories. Only 1200-1500 calories a day will maintain your body weight if you do nothing. But you will starve to death if you do actually do something, like patrol, work a feild, grind wheat, whatever.

So lets further break it down if ONLY going with Rice, Beans. (No B12, and No Oil/Fat and MANY other things and you WILL eventually die...horribly)

25lbs of Rice = 56.25 cups of rice divided by 3 cups a day= 18.75 days of Rice
5lbs of Pinto Beans = 35 cups of beans divided by 3 cups a day = 11.5 days of Beans

That 3 meals a day, ONLY giving you 1200 calories (starvation diet) and you still do NOT have a months worth.

The 300lbs grains and 60lbs beans is an absolute MYTH that is repeated over and over again.

Even with the Milk, Sugar and Fat in the "5 will keep you alive" it's not enough to stay healthy for very long.

It doesn't work in the REAL world.

Most of the "quick and easy" food storage advice doesn't work in the real world.

Lastly, numbers on paper are one thing. They pretty much go out the window with season changes and work habits.

So if just only concentrating on beans and rice (I hope you are doing more), then 50lbs of rice and 20lbs of beans ers person, per month, would be a START.

Food Storage is a study of what you need to not just live, thrive.

Food Storage and planning USED to be common sense. If you read any of the lists of what people actually packed for a Wagon Train, expedition, campaign or the like, it gives a bit more insight as to more realistic quantities of food that people KNEW they would need. And even then sometimes fell short.

You SHOULD overshoot of what you "think" you might need calorie wise. You might lose some food to storage conditions, pests, etc.

But that is kind of the cart before the horse.

The first question to be answered before how much beans and rice, is how much water will it take to soak and cook them and how much fuel do I have to do it?

I'll stop here. I have to start my morning. Food Storage can be as simplified or as complete as you want it to be. *Me*, I like to see it through to being complete as in health wise. Remember, you can have a full belly everyday but still starve from manutrition. I gave a few breif examples as to the how and why. Unfortunately I myself did not think to ever question the numbers or the consequences of any of it. I can say without reservation that most of the "food storage" advice given is bunk when you actually try and follow it.

Which lie got to you so that you refuse Him???

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 11:38:50 PM »
good post. It shows how difficult it would really be in most survival situations. Living off the land is an art that has been lost through the years and VERY FEW will be able to do it under even ideal circumstances. Just to many people and not enough wildlife left. Keep in mind too that the old pioneers that did it brought along livestock, seeds and enough food to get them by until they could be self sufficiant. The days of walking out into the wild and not starving to death have been over for a 100 years.
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Offline pastorp

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 02:48:51 AM »
Your exactly right on that living off the land Lloyd. I think for the most part a small homestead with garden & livestock is the only way to go nowadays. 

Only place I know where you can still live off the land is a southeast Alaska beach. But with pollution there are dangers even there.

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Offline Hit or Miss

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2011, 04:17:11 PM »
I agree with both of you.  Life is going to get pretty tough for lots of folks who have no skills and no supplies.  When you consider the amount of calories it will take a person to get through a day of hard work it boggles the mind.  A garden will provide plenty of variety and much needed vitamins and minerals but not very many calories.
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Offline Cornbelt

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 03:46:23 AM »
 Interesting point about starving w/a full belly.
  My boss had an afgan hound which ate like a horse but was getting skinnier each day; even the vet couldn't figure it out, so the boss took him out and put him out of his misery.
  THEN he heard on the news that generic dogfood didn't have enough nutrition to keep a dog healthy. Too bad for ol' Rover, but a good lesson.
  Rabbits, for instance, take more energy to digest than they give when digested.

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 08:59:10 AM »
Good reason to have good multi vitamins in your prep stores no?  Maybe freeze dried meats for those lean times? If the fertilizer hit the ventilator a person would have to keep very close (armed)watch on his chicken house and herd animals.

Offline blind ear

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 11:21:53 AM »
Good reason to have good multi vitamins in your prep stores no?  Maybe freeze dried meats for those lean times? If the fertilizer hit the ventilator a person would have to keep very close (armed)watch on his chicken house and herd animals.

May be another reason that historically Europeans had thier livestock on the bottom floor of the house or even in the living area, not just for warmth as we were always taught in grammar school. ear
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Offline hillbill

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2011, 03:54:12 PM »
in my way of thinking food storage is a good idea, but mainly as a supplement to to allow you to remain energetic enough to forage.i know its not goin to work in every area and depends a lot on the forageing pressure put on by other hunter gatherers.i live on a small creek here in SW MO. coons and possums are easily trapped and would provide plenty of fat intake.venison is also easily obtainable.i actually think i could eat pretty well for a maybe a year, maybe two. givin sum ammo and a dozen traps.after that it would get pretty lean.larger game would go nocturnal and you would have to resort to snareing deer to get any at all.but again if everybody is doing it yur going to be out of bizness in maybe 6 months.im just estimateing given the game pops in my area.id say your also going to have to protect your territory to keep interlopers out if you want any game at all.and all this would also depend on you haveing 24/7 to forage and grow food.

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2011, 04:37:47 PM »
Watch the Viggo Mortenson movie,"The Road" for a little different perspective of this topic.I have learned the skills of growing and preserving flora and fauna,but there may be more things to consider.With the current state of our nation and government, I feel it is prudent to be aware. Good luck to all,and God bless,cause he's the only one that can.

Offline bilmac

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 05:20:06 PM »
I agree hit or miss, I worry about the fat problem too. Because I have limited acres compared to the number of mouths I may have to feed, I hate to consider livestock as a source of fat. Very inefficient. I'm thinking that I can grow vegetable oils a lot more efficiently. This year I experimented with flax and sunflowers. Lieman's sells a small oil press.

Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2011, 06:31:12 PM »
In 1969 I bought some acreage near Fairbanks (Alaska) and built a small cabin on it.  I was going back to college and conserving my pennies.  For the better part of a year my diet was oatmeal with sugar and butter for breakfast.  Peanut butter/mayonaise sandwich with a cabbage leaf to give it crunch, and the bread was a bannock made in the frying pan, sliced in half was my lunch.  Dinner was rice with beans and 1/4 pound of burger.  At the time I could get a week's worth of groceries for $5.  As a precaution I took a One-A-Day multiple vitamin daily, but that was a supplement in case I missed out on needed vities.  Oh, and I drank lots of tea sweetened with sugar.

I was never out of energy.  I often skied the 7 miles to the UA campus.  I hauled water in a 5 gallon GI Jerry can on a pack frame from the university every day.  I was 5'10" and around 160 pounds so certainly not fat, but not skinny either.

If I hadn't gotten married I would probably still be on that diet!

-WH-
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Offline bilmac

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 06:24:13 AM »
And that 5 bucks was spent in Fairbanks where everything costs a lot more.

Sugar and honey are a good way to up the calorie count

Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 05:18:59 PM »
That was in '69, when gas was 50 cents / gallon and ground beef was 49 cents per pound.  I forget what the rice & beans were.  I also remembered after my last post that I would also make pancakes for breakfast, so it wasn't just oatmeal.

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Offline 30calflash

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 09:17:57 AM »
 With the talk centered on acquiring fat(s), what is out there now that would cover the bases for a while? Would a shortening count? How long would olive oil, canola, peanut etc. last in storage?
 I'm not much of a cook but it would be good to know
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Offline reliquary

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 10:40:15 AM »
I haven't thought about cooking oil or shortening.  Good question.  Peanut oil lasts longer for the fish fryer. 
 
I've stored about 15 pounds of fat above and around my beltline.  Does that count?
 
Seriously, put away some #10 cans of butter powder, cheese blend, powdered milk, etc,  from one of the Mormon sites.  Emergency Essentials (Google) has given me good service.  Powdered baby formula from Sam's has a good shelf life, as does basic powdered milk. 

Offline Casull

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 03:14:47 PM »
Good post, but there is one glaring error in your calculations.
Quote
25lbs of Rice = 56.25 cups of rice divided by 3 cups a day= 18.75 days of
Rice
25lbs of Rice = 175 cups of COOKED rice divided by 3 cups a day = 58.33 days of Rice.  So, with 11.5 days of beans, that equals 69.83 days of rice and beans combined, which divided by 2 (in order to have both each day) = 34.915 days.  That would be enough for a month.  It would just be a little more rice and a little less beans.
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Offline keith44

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2011, 03:37:09 PM »
Lets not over look the oils in fish either.  A small farm pond stocked with bluegill, catfish, and / or others maintained in a balanced sustainable manner will provide alot of nutrition.  If you have the room a one acre pond or lake can feed three year round.  You just have to be willing to cure and freeze the catch.  If there are rivers and streams near by these are also great sources.  Being more of a country dweller, and having livestock, ponds, orchards, and gardens both on my property as well as on my families property looting is a greater concern to me. 

Along with fish, most pumpkin, and squash store well at 55 degrees with fairly low humidity and would also help with the nutritional requirements.  Cabbages can be transplanted into a trench and buried whole with layers of straw and dirt and keep through the winters we have in western Ky.  Mushrooms, canned or dried are another suppliment that keep very well.  Beans and rice with cornbread and homemade butter, baked butternut squash.  That's how we do it.  I am able to grow and store a years supply of food using just 1 acre of my land.  If you have grass, you have a place to grow food, and if you have a closet you have a place to store it. 

Learning how is easy, start now and if the stuff hits the oscillator, you will be many steps ahead of those who don't.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2011, 03:26:55 AM »
I stock spam and treet for fat and also multi-vitamins.
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Offline myronman3

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2011, 09:06:39 AM »
great posts, guys.   

Offline reliquary

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Re: Food storage info
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2011, 04:34:20 PM »
Speaking of storing fat:  I was in the local grocery store today (HEB). 
 
In the Hispanic food section, they had 10- and 25-lb buckets of lard. Been a while since I've seen those things.  "Use by" date is 18 months out, so it should store well.  Runs just a little over $1.00 per pound in the 25-lb size.