Author Topic: Model 12 Chamber  (Read 799 times)

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Offline Smiley

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Model 12 Chamber
« on: January 03, 2004, 02:36:20 AM »
I have a model 12 given to me by my father in law. The SN dates 1918/19.  The barrel is marked Nickel steel can anyone tell me about this gun? Is the chamber 2 1/2. Can they be fixed or should one just keep it. I like to shoot it and I know it has been shot with 3 inch shells and 2 1/2s. Thanks For the help <:)

Offline DonT

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Model 12 Chamber
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2004, 05:04:09 AM »
If it is marked 2 1/2 and has not been modified you are taking your life in your hands putting 2 3/4 or 3" in it, putting to your face and pulling the trigger.  If it is not marked and you are not sure do not shoot it with anything until you take it to a competent gunsmith who can check it for you.  I have explained why below...

The reason is the old shells were "rolled crimped" and very little opened up as it unrolled to release the shot and card wad that held it in place.  Todays shells are star crimped and extend much further into the forcing cone.  This creates a restriction in the bore when fired in a gun with a short chamber.  This restrictions spike the pressures inside the gun well above acceptable limits.  The fact you have done it in the past does not make the practice any safer and puts undo strain on the gun.  Eventually, when all the conditions are right, it IS gonna come apart and you DO NOT want to be on the receiving end of that, lifes to short.

The chambers can be lengthened to 2 3/4 (no steel, no magnum loads) and this would make it safe to shoot providing the rest of the gun in in good shape.  I doubt anyone would suggest going to 3" with it.  I don't doubt what you are saying but I am really suprised it functioned with three inch rounds and it really attests to the quality of these old guns in that it didn't come apart on you with the 3 inchers..  You can probably find a smith in the area that can do this very reasonably (under $100).

Now for your question IF you should do it.  Depends on a couple of factors.  If the gun is 95% or better I would say don't unless you do not care about the collector value.   If it is just a well used shooter then the effect on its value as a collector is minimal.

If you want to shoot magnum 2 3/4 rounds &/or steel or 3" thumpers then you would be better suited (and safer) pickin up a used pump of recent manufacture that is designed to handle these loads safely.

This is just one ole shooters take on it, I am sure you will get others...

Dont

Offline gunnut69

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Model 12 Chamber
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2004, 07:13:23 AM »
The length of the chamber has little to do with the crimp technique..  The length of a shotshell is it's length in the fired state..  While roll crimps do produce longer shells the fired lengths will remain the same as a star crimped shell of the same length.  I didn't see a guage specified but there were 20 guage 2 1/2 inch chambers made in the M12 until about 1927-28.  I know of no 2 1/2 inch 12 guage chambers ever being made but am ceratinly not an expert.  Check the barrel inscription for chamber length and or measure the chamber.  I have seen articles saying the is little change in pressure when firing a 2 3/4 inch shell in a 2 1/2 inch chamber but I really doubt that.  It is dangerous in the extreme.   A 3 inch shell is not even in the cards...  Take the shotgun to a competant smith and have it evaluated.  I've seen these old timers in such condition that they were little more than wall hangers.  Most times if not damaged they can be restored to working order.
gunnut69--
The 2nd amendment to the constitution of the United States of America-
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Offline Chuck from arkansaw

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Model 12 Chamber
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2004, 04:14:25 PM »
If it is a 12 ga. it is a 2 3/4". If it is a 16 ga. it is a 2 9/16" unless it has been modified.  It it is a 20 ga. It is a a  2 1/2" unless modified.  I have a 1914 20 ga. that I replaced the barrel on, and it is a slick little shooter.