Author Topic: westley richards .303  (Read 1903 times)

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Offline kevin.303

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westley richards .303
« on: November 10, 2003, 07:36:15 AM »
i'm sure that like me everyone who has an interest in african hunting has seen the movie "the ghost and the darkness" or read john patterson's book, "the maneaters of tsavo". i'm interested in the rifle he carries in the movie.i've been told that it's a Westley Richards Lee based rifle and he is loading it with what looks to the standard .303 cartridge. how often do these rifles appear on the market and what is there value? i dream of hunting in africa some day and would love to do it with a classic rifle and cartridge. if not a .303 then perhaps a M95 winchester in .405.....

i've also heard reference that more african & indian game(including elephants, the trick was to shoot them in the ear) has been taken with service issued .303's than with any other rifle, is there any truth to this?
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Offline JJHACK

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westley richards .303
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2003, 09:42:42 AM »
A few details about this from the local folks in Africa I work with and live with seasonally that you might find interesting.

Something very important to consider which at the time was not fully understood were the tribal customs of many of the laborors. It was proven while the situation was at hand but everyone refused to believe it. Had they listened to the people from the village and the Local professional hunters instead of the Col. the problem might have never occured!

Each local village had a custom when anyone died to have a ceremony and then remove the remains to the bush where the animals would complete the cycle of life. There is no such thing as a burial ground or cemetary in the African bush for the nomadic tribes. Because of this Hyena would often hang around human habitation for the "donor''s" that eventually show up from time to time. They also hung around for every last scrap of any possible food item like clothing and greasy pieces of firewood from fat drippings. Hyena will eat and live on nearly anything that will fit into is stomach. They are one of the few animals that can live eating the sick and diesesed things. They have near 100% imunity to illness includng anthrax. They can also survive by eating the bones found on the ground from animals dead a year or more. The Hyena is called "fisi" by the local people which in English means devil. They gave it that name because it laughs and howls when it eats the dead!

During those many years of construction in the heart of Hyena territory many people died and were killed in accidents. Most had no family or were indian coolies from india. When this happend to occur they would be carried away with a short cerimony and left in the bush. Well guess what, the Hyena was there to clean up the mess. After a year or so there was an outbreak of some sort ( I cannot recall the plagues name at this moment)among the laborors. Many died and many more were very sick. The Hyena had a gold mine of food for a year or more. This was eventually sorted out, the illness and health issues solved by providing better living conditions. The hyenas were then starving after having had so much to eat for so long. The population was high and the food very much reduced now. ( not nearly as many dead bodies)

Well it seams the hyena had no concept of a sleeping man or a dead man. Once they hapened upon a sleeping human lying under a blanket they simply crunched the skull and dragged them away. No kicking screaming or struggle. Just instant death from the giant Hyena teeth which by the way are much bigger then a brown or polar bear and very likely much more powerful!

When morning came the coolie was missing and everyone was in terror! All they ever saw during the day were lions so the lions must be the culprit! Everyone knows how lions kill and eat people right? This horror of the lions continued on for a long time. Hyena are mostly nocturnal and lions mostly active in daylight. It stands to reason that Lions would be more often seen. Lions regarless of popular belief will steal a meal sooner then catch their own. If they see a Hyena with a big chunk of meat they will do everything possible to take it away. Since they run faster and are 2.5 times the size, it's a very short struggle. This however provided lion tracks around most of the human remains and the hyena tracks that were there were thought to be from the Hyena's sniffing around after the fact.

The Brits were too blind to realize the actual problem was the Hyena. They seemed to be correct in the solution, but it was just coincidence as well. You see they built lion proof areas for the workers to sleep in and kept much cleaner work stations. They also began burrying the dead. Now the Lions had little to eat after all the theft of meat from the hyenas they had for many years. The Hyena could no longer get the sleeping people either. The lions became more bold and were seen near the work camps often. Of course once they were shot the problem went away. However the problem was solved before they were shot by protecting the workers in the Boma's at night, and burrying the dead.

The Movie is a joke if you think it's anything even close to reality. Although an entertaing flick, just not reality based! The book is good but certainly does not detail enough of the facts to show the real problem was the Hyena not the lion. Anyway this is the real story straight from Africa as I heard it from the old timers I learned my trade from.

 


Here is a recent news report which confirms the Hyena habits and lifestyle which is still going on today.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sleeping Tourists Fall Foul of Hyenas At Sesriem Camp


The Namibian (Windhoek)

October 29, 2003
Posted to the web October 29, 2003

Maggi Barnard
Swakopmund

TWO tourists have been attacked by a hyena at the Sesriem camp near Sossusvlei in the Namib desert, bringing the number of attacks in the past month to four.

The most recent attacks took place early this week and during the night.

The tourists were bitten in the face while sleeping outside or in a tent.

"Something needs to be done urgently," said a doctor at Swakopmund who treated one of the tourists for her injuries.

The woman who was attacked on Monday night was reportedly lucky not to have lost an eye as the hyena bit her just above the eyebrow.

"She will be left with a nasty scar though," said the doctor, who requested anonymity.

A second tourist attacked by a hyena at Sesriem was on his way to Swakopmund yesterday for medical attention.

No details were available on the nature of his injuries.

Dr Victoria Nikodemus, head of Namibia Wildlife Resorts (NWR), under whose management the Sesriem camp falls, told The Namibian yesterday that tourists are warned of the dangers posed by hyenas when they book into the camp.

"We confirm the incidents and have taken responsibility for it," she said.

Nikodemus referred further enquiries to the Ministry of Environment and Tourism (MET).

"It is their park and their hyenas. They have to decide what to do next," she said.

MET Deputy Permanent Secretary, William Amagulu, said he was not aware of the hyena attacks and referred The Namibian to the Director of Wildlife, Ben Beytell.

Beytell was unavailable yesterday.

About a month ago a tourist from East Europe was attacked by a hyena and bitten on the head and in the face at Sesriem.

A piece of his scull bone had to be removed.

He was apparently sleeping in a tent and the hyena went inside.

A few days later a second tourist was attacked and was taken to Windhoek for treatment.

An environmental scientist told The Namibian yesterday that in Kenya some people had been bitten in the face by hyenas, while in some cases women's breasts had been bitten off.
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As far as the rifle is concerned I belive the actual rifle used by Patterson was a 303 which likely explains it inefficient killing power, in the move he used a double rifle which was unlikely in a .303 british cartridge. The .303 was not intended as an African Hunting cartridge but was available as a military cartridge. Double rifles typically started at .40 caliber (10mm) during that era.

The same could be said 70 years from now if a prospective hunter then said he wished to hunt Africa with an AK47 because it was used in various parts of Africa during the 1980s and 1990's for self defense against big game. It was not selected specifically for it outstanding performance on game it was simply available as a military weapon. Although a .303 brithish would be a fair rifle on plains game it would not be suitable for the bigger species, nor would it be legal. If you were to choose a .303 as your hunting rifle the use of the best premium bullets and modern powders would be suggested. Although that would kinda change the intent of using "what was used back in the day"
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Offline kevin.303

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westley richards .303
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2003, 12:55:46 PM »
one rifle i'm considering is the 2 1/2 .375 flanged magnum. manyof these where built on the Lee-Enfield action but i know nothing of there power.there was an article in Rifle magazine where the author used one of these as well as an alexander henry .500 BP to hont razorbacks in australia. Westley & Richards sells the .375 factory ammo at 70 pounds for ten rounds and i haven't found any major company that makes reloading dies. have you ever head of any one using the old sharps .45 &.50 cartrides for african hunting? i had no idea a hyena was cabable of draging of a full grown man. thanks for all the information. i visted your website and was quite pleased to see that it wasn't a canned hunt. i've never seen the purpose of gaurenteed trophys the purpose of hunting is to find a wild animal on its on ground and not pick one out of a pen, and hunt it on a fenced in field.
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline Double D

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westley richards .303
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2003, 01:36:48 PM »
Kevin,

I was deer hunting last week with my .375 2 1/2 Flanged NE Martini.

Got my dies from CH4D just this afternoon http://www.ch4d.com

Kynoch sells loaded ammo and brass. It isn't cheap, but neither are golf clubs.

John Taylor wasn't much impressed with the cartridge in Africa.  Elmer Keith and John Caswell thought it was good cartridge for North America.  Kieth's Lancaster Double. Casewell used it alot up north in your part of the world.

On British Militaria there is a discussion going on about this cartridge and the rifles it was chambered in.  Here is a Lee pictured there.


Offline kevin.303

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westley richards .303
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2003, 07:03:59 AM »
i checked out the website and while those dies aren't cheap, i was expecting to see a price of a few hundred dollars so i think 70 is quite good. i'm taking a home gunsmithing course and i think i'll build me one of those.
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline NitroEX

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westley richards .303
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2003, 09:07:08 PM »
These "old-timers" must have been very old indeed to be around and hunting in 1890 ??????    :)

Offline 50 Calshtr

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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2004, 10:01:24 AM »
The 375 2.5 is OK for 300-400 lb animals that don't bite back. With a 270 gr bullet at 2100 fps it isn't in the 375 H&H class but it does do nicely on the small to medium beasts.  I like to load mine with the Speer 235 gr spire points and hunt deer with it. Reloading this caliber is easy! Dies are from RCBS, brass can be had from Bertram or you can blow out 30-40 cases and bullets are cast or jacketed as you chose.  Don't try to hot rod it, most of the rifles in this caliber won't handle it and the sights will be off.