10 gauge cannon? Can someone school me?

[DukeInMaine]

Ok, I haven't seen this beast yet. But one of my neighbor, knowing that I do a LOT of reloading, asked me if I could make some 10 gauge "blanks" for a cannon that his cousin has.

I'm not familiar with such a thing, but bumping into this thread area has me interested in learning more.

What are these? How do they work? What's needed to load for them?

[Bob J]

Hi Orville!
Funny running into you here....


It's probably a winchester signal cannon http://www.thecannonstore.com/products.asp?lineID=W98


If it is it uses a standard 10 gauge blank shell http://www.thecannonstore.com/details.asp?prodID=W10GB


Found this thread over on THR that might help with your load development  http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-495602.html


Good luck! 


Bob J

[Cannoneer]

Ok, I haven't seen this beast yet. But one of my neighbor, knowing that I do a LOT of reloading, asked me if I could make some 10 gauge "blanks" for a cannon that his cousin has.

I'm not familiar with such a thing, but bumping into this thread area has me interested in learning more.

What are these? How do they work? What's needed to load for them?

Hello Duke,

Always, only use black powder, I use FFg. Primer shell, and then pour as much bp as you want, but leave enough wall space to accomodate 1 thin card and your sealer. I make my own cards with a hole punch, and I use Duco cement to form a bead around the top of the card ( but you can use anything that makes sense). I also don't do any tamping on the powder, to get it to settle, I just tap the bottom of the case on the table. That's it, that's all I can think of.

[Spuddy]

DukeInMaine,
Good to see someone else from Maine here. 
 

[Zulu]

Ok, I haven't seen this beast yet. But one of my neighbor, knowing that I do a LOT of reloading, asked me if I could make some 10 gauge "blanks" for a cannon that his cousin has.

I'm not familiar with such a thing, but bumping into this thread area has me interested in learning more.

What are these? How do they work? What's needed to load for them?

Hello Duke,

Always, only use black powder, I use FFg. Primer shell, and then pour as much bp as you want, but leave enough wall space to accomodate 1 thin card and your sealer. I make my own cards with a hole punch, and I use Duco cement to form a bead around the top of the card ( but you can use anything that makes sense). I also don't do any tamping on the powder, to get it to settle, I just tap the bottom of the case on the table. That's it, that's all I can think of.

Cannoneer,
Do you use brass shell casings? 
Zulu

[rmagill]

Something to keep in mind is how far that  wad will fly.  My 12 gauge cannon will shoot a plastic wad 25-30 feet on just a primer. Great for indoor target practice occasionally. I've never tried paper so maybe it's different, but still something to think about.
Bob

[Cannoneer]

Zulu,

Yeah, I got them from Rocky Mountain Cartridge, LLC. Very well made, if they're taken care of, they should last a lifetime. I got the 10 Gauge 3˝" shells.

[carmy53]

Zulu,

Yeah, I got them from Rocky Mountain Cartridge, LLC. Very well made, if they're taken care of, they should last a lifetime. I got the 10 Gauge 3˝" shells.

If it is a Winchester signal cannon I think it will only accept 2 7/8" blanks.

[Cat Whisperer]

Ahhhh.  2-7/8 STANDARD blank.   That gives me something for which to use my worn out (at the mouth) 3-1/2" 10 ga shells.

[Cannoneer]

If it is a Winchester signal cannon I think it will only accept 2 7/8" blanks.

Why?

[Soot]

If it is a Winchester signal cannon I think it will only accept 2 7/8" blanks.

Why?

I think this is so you cant chamber a field load.

[Zulu]

If it is a Winchester signal cannon I think it will only accept 2 7/8" blanks.

Why?

I think this is so you cant chamber a field load.

Soot,
Cannoneer has already said he uses a 3 1/2" casing in his so it must be able to chamber it.
Zulu

[GGaskill]

Cannoneer has already said he uses a 3 1/2" casing in his so it must be able to chamber it.

But has he actually chambered any of them yet?

[Soot]

I've never tried to chamber a shotgun shell that was longer than the chamber, so I don't know how easily it can be done. What i do know is that a shotgun head spaces on the rim of the shell. Head space being the point in the chamber that stops the foreward movement of the shell. After the chamber there is a forcing cone, and using too long a shell pushes it into the forcing cone and doesn't allow the shell to open fully. This would create a higher than normal pressure situation. I cant see why a blank shooting cannon would even have a forcing cone, so it probably doesn't matter.

[Cannoneer]

I cant see why a blank shooting cannon would even have a forcing cone, so it probably doesn't matter.

That is the meaning of my question why to "carmy53." My 10 Ga. is a machinist made signal gun, and it has a stainless steel barrel with a straight bore. I don't own a Winchester/Bellmore Johnson, and it's possible that it is chambered for the 2.75" shell; so I just went looking and found this from one of the stores licenced to sell them: "All models are chambered for a Winchester 10 gauge blank cartridge and are fired by pulling a lanyard." I don't know if that description means all that much though; there must be a member here who owns, or has experience with one of them.

[carmy53]

From the Bellmore Johnson website - don't know if this means you can't use something else
This cannon has been designed, manufactured and tested for factory loaded Winchester brand 10 gauge, 2 7/8 inch BLANK CARTRIDGES ONLY.
 

[GGaskill]

Probably means you aren't supposed to fire shells loaded with shot; maybe also shells loaded with smokeless powder.

[Cannoneer]

carmy53,

I saw that statement when I searched yesterday, and I'm sure George is right about two thirds of the reasoning behind it; the last third being that they're Winchester shells, and pull in more profit. You were right though, the Winchester Model 98 signal gun won't chamber the 3˝ shells, but that doesn't mean you can't load your own. The outfit I mentioned earlier (Rocky mountain Cartridge) also makes brass 10 Gauge 2 7/8 inch shells.

[jamesbeat]

Last time I bought some 10ga blanks (which was many years ago) they came with wads made from thin particle board.
I thought this was an excellent idea, as the particle board would turn to sawdust upon firing, making for a safer design than a traditional wad.
I don't know how easy it would be to make wads out of particle board, but I thought I'd let you know anyway.

[DukeInMaine]

Thanks for the follow ups and info!

Bob, I'm like you..............  EVERYWHERE!!!

Will see what I can do to help my neighbor with his cannon.

Here's me, with my son in law, with a couple of home made cannons:

[flagman1776]

delete

[jamesbeat]

Or maybe even a short barreled shotgun...

[Double D]

Gentlemen,  some where buried on our board is letter from ATF describing these guns as signalling devices.   

Lets leave that discussion about these guns at that.  Lets not speculate about their status from  misuse and give some rookie ATF agent food for thought.  That is not what this board is about.

[flagman1776]

delete

[longcaribiner]

I ran into an entire ammo can of 223 Blanks so I made an adapter to fire 223 blanks in the Winchester Signal Cannon. 

The next project is to make a 28 ga adapter.  (Ran into a bunch of paper hulls cheap)

[Cat Whisperer]

I ran into an entire ammo can of 223 Blanks so I made an adapter to fire 223 blanks in the Winchester Signal Cannon. 

The next project is to make a 28 ga adapter.  (Ran into a bunch of paper hulls cheap)

COOL idea!

  Now I need to build a signal cannon - to shoot up MY 50cal ammo box of 223 blanks.