Author Topic: Never say never  (Read 683 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline greenrivers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
Never say never
« on: September 19, 2011, 08:48:51 AM »
 A couple years ago I bought a handy in 204 and had the darn thing keep opening on firing. I took it back and bought  Contender that I am really happy with except that I have to use trap door only loads in it for the 45/70. I now find myself wanting a rifle that will handle a full boat load and find the Number 1's a little pricey. After going through some of the old topics I see that there are two frames available. Which do I want and does the heavier one come on the BC? Also wondering if they will handle the loads that the Rugers will? Thanks for any help guys.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

  • Trade Count: (60)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2742
Re: Never say never
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2011, 10:10:13 AM »
You want the SB-2 frame.  It will handle the heavier loadings.  I don't have a BC rifle, so I don't know if it comes with the SB1 or SB2 frame.  I'm sure one of the guys that have one will chime in soon.  If not Quick should be on tonight, and he will have the correct answer.

You should have sent your original Handi back to the factory.  They would have fixed it for you, and you would not be in this position now ;) , plus you could have saved the money you spent on the Contender, for additional Handis.  ;D

A big welcome back to the prodigal son ;D .
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline greenrivers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
Re: Never say never
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2011, 10:59:04 AM »
Thanks for the quick responce and the "prodical son" got a quick grin. I had a run of items that were defective and when the handi came along it crossed my mind to send it back, but was a little miffed about quality control. Should not have been I guess. I have owned a number of them over the years and found them to be tough and inexpensive "canoe guns". Not sorry for the Contender though, it is a nice little and light carbine. Just not heavy duty enough for the 45/70.

Offline tacklebury

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3633
  • Gender: Male
  • Central Michigan
Re: Never say never
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 12:34:55 PM »
All modern .45-70's are on SB2 frames.  I believe the Shikari was the last SB1 framed .45-70, but someone might have more specifics for you.  If you want a handy sized Handi - the BC is not really that.  The 32" barrel is great for me, but lugging it around in the field can get tedious.  You might take a look at the Handi-grip .45-70 or the regular.  If you get into the light ones, you'll be dealing with too little weight imo.
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Never say never
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 12:44:59 PM »
Welcome back!  ;) The BC comes on an SB2 frame, same as any Handi made 1987 and later, the Shikari wasn't an SB1 or SB2, it did have a cast iron frame tho, the SB1/SB2 frame designation didn't happen until 1987. Modern 45-70 H&Rs will handle Ruger loads but maybe not forever, it certainly isn't as strong a platform as the Ruger, but lots here use the lower Ruger levels, of course it depends on whos data you use too, Hodgdon and Hornady set the levergun pressure limit at 40kcup which is in or above the Ruger data for everyone else, and FWIW, probably more than anyone needs for that matter, even trapdoor loads up to 28kcup are lethal for pretty much any north american game. If you can stand the recoil, the Handi will work fine as long as you don't give it a steady diet of 50kcup loads, I think that would be detrimental to underlug longevity, more than likely shooter longevity too unless you add some weight and a better recoil pad.  :-\

As for the pop opens on the 204, that was likely either oil on the latch/shelf, or you just didn't lock the action closed firm enough, there's a warning on that exact issue in the owner's manual, on a new rifle it's even more critical until the locking parts get use to each other. The only pop opens I've ever had were due to improper cleaning and not closing the action firmly while in a rest, had a couple pop opens today on my 260 Rem Handi, it had oil on the latch, cleaned it and it didn't do it any more, all was good!  8)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline gcrank1

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7644
  • Gender: Male
Re: Never say never
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2011, 03:50:02 PM »
Maybe someday a Ruger No.1 will come my way that I can afford, but I went through this about a year ago and scored an H&R SS Ultra Hunter that has been, for me, a very suitable substitute. Mine has had the lam. thumbhole stock changed out to a 'conventional' lam. stockset, which suits me better too, though it may not you. Easy and relatively inexpensive to do, or even go with the more handsome Topper Deluxe Classic walnut stockset. Except for 'trapdoor' class loads I wouldnt recommend the hooked buttplate BC stock.
I dont need high end No.1 loads, but everything I have run through mine has been good.
Give 'em a look.......or PM me and I will see if I can e-mail you pics of mine, Im partial, but I think it makes a good looking and handling package.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline bikerbeans

  • Trade Count: (168)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4070
  • Gender: Male
  • BANDIT - North American Snake Hound
Re: Never say never
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2011, 04:29:12 PM »
had a couple pop opens today on my 260 Rem Handi, it had oil on the latch, cleaned it and it didn't do it any more, all was good!  8)

Tim

Our Handi Guru had a pop open?!?!?!?! :o   Next thing you know someone is going to tell me there isn't a Santa Claus. ::)
 
BB
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Never say never
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 05:03:44 PM »
Yup, it can happen to anyone if ya don't follow the rules!!  ??? ::) ;D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Spanky

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (96)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4627
  • Gender: Male
  • USMC Semper Fidelis
Re: Never say never
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 06:49:51 PM »
Trapdoor loads will kill anything in North America. Ruger loads just beat up the gun and the shooter.
 
 
 
Spanky

Offline greenrivers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
Re: Never say never
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 04:21:50 AM »
As my handi was a new rifle, I did not take it apart. The following day it got returned. Something inside had become disconnected as the release felt slushy and did not function. After reading the forums, I realised that they are tougher guns and should work well for a suitable load. After almost forty years of reloading, I am not looking to beat myself or the gun up, just find a mid range load that will perform well with my cast bullets and not have a worry about stretching the frame. Thanks for the input guys.

Offline bikerbeans

  • Trade Count: (168)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4070
  • Gender: Male
  • BANDIT - North American Snake Hound
Re: Never say never
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 07:55:14 AM »
Trapdoor loads will kill anything in North America. Ruger loads just beat up the gun and the shooter.
 
 
 
Spanky

+1 on the Ruger loads.  I got stupid last year and loaded 100 rounds of mid level Ruger loads, a progressive press isn't always your friend. :P   I am shooting them in my 45-70 shorty and I have removed all the lead shot from the stock channel.  I only have 10 more to shoot and then it is trapdoor only for me. ;)
 
BB
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Winter Hawk

  • Trade Count: (47)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1947
  • Gender: Male
Re: Never say never
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 08:29:36 AM »
I had my (now NCSurveyor's) .30-06 Handi refinished in Fairbanks with Arctic Gunworks' "Arctic Kote" which is a Teflon type finish.  The first thing that happened when I shot it was the Pop Open.  The Teflon had slicked up the shelf too much.  Gary cleaned it down to bare metal again and the problem stopped.

-Kees-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Never say never
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 10:12:09 AM »
I often carry my Trapdoor with Remington Factory loads, when out in the woods looking for Bears.  My son goes as back-up.  He carries his Handi with levergun loads.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.