Author Topic: Allegheny Butcher Knife  (Read 1365 times)

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Offline Joel

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Allegheny Butcher Knife
« on: September 28, 2011, 02:08:05 PM »
No, it's not a Nessmuk; the blade point is centered and the blade itself is straighter.  The Nessmuk blade was hardly unique; there were, and are, many similar blades in use out there.  What Sears did was make it small and stick a sexy handle on it...but he still(briefly) describes it as a meat cutting/slicing knife.  The centered point on this one makes it usable for many everyday normal knife cutting activities.  It's essentially a semi-skinner.  The knife has some similarities to one produced by Walt Knuebuhler; although Walt used the same blade shape to make a number of different style knives.  Walt's version was based on a knife given to Jack Mcphee, a well known outdoorsman who lived, and wrote, back in the late 1800's/early 1900's by a friend of Nessmuk's(the actual Native American, not Sears) and also featured a centered point.


Anyway, the blade is flatground from 3/32" CPM154CM and is 4.5" long from tip to plunge.  OAL is 9.5".  The handle is made from Green Burlap and Fiberglas resin, basically the same process as micarta is made.  Copper trim.




Offline Dave223

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2011, 08:26:12 AM »
Very nice Joel! Since Ive begun to have an interest in knife making, I have read just about all of your threads and posts. You make some really beautiful knives! I hope to maybe be this good one day.  Is this what you do for a living or is this a hobby/ past time?  Thanks for posting this, Dave
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Offline Joel

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 04:47:45 AM »
 Thanks for the compliment, Dave. I guess you could call it a  part time living.  I started 15 years ago and was full time then.  Over the years, I"ve gradually slowed down until I make a couple a month, except during this time of year due to hunting/Christmas.  These days, slowing down has resulted in me having more time to spend on each knife , plus time to work with my own designs 

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2011, 04:55:32 AM »
As usual Joel, its a marvelous looking knife and sheath!! Copper is a nice touch!
 
 VERY NICE!
 
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Offline Silvertp

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2011, 05:52:26 AM »
Joel

Your knife says "functional, stout" with a dash of "class."  I like how your burlap scales turned out.

Im curious if you made the sheath as well, the design and staining would go well with a knife I just finished up.

Silvertp

Offline Joel

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2011, 03:36:46 PM »
Thanks for the remarks.  I do like this design.  I make all my own sheaths.  A lot of my designs don't fit the store bought sheaths available and it  helps keep the price down when I don't have to pay a custom sheathmaker; although their work is often worth it.  The leather in this comes from a leather supplier located about 40 miles from me.  I can get it by the side, and in this case it was dyed "chesnut" by the tannery.

Offline Dave223

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2011, 03:45:14 PM »
Just a few questions. If you dont want to give away any secrets thats fine. When you put on the scales, they are epoxied correct? when installing the pins, what holds them in place, is it a tight fit, pressed in, or? Also, when you use the spacer material is it epoxied in place then the scales are epoxied on top of them? The bolsters are soldered in place?  UGGGGGhhhh, so much to learn!  Thanks, Dave
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Offline Joel

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 04:46:42 AM »
People have different ways of doing things.  When it comes to spacers or liners, I prefer to use Super Glue to hold the liners onto the scales.  It's thinner than epoxy and absorbs into fibre liner material to add strength. I smear superglue(wearing a glove) on the handle, fit the spacer material which was cut to fit the slab onto the slab and clamp them between two pieces of wood for 24 hours.  That much super glue takes more time to dry and I find after 24 hours I have no problems with them separating.  Use a fair amount of glue since the liner material will absorb some, but try not to have so much runoff that it glue the slabs to the clamping material.  The advantage to this method is that with the liner/scale already joined it makes drilling the pin holes much easier.   Others use epoxy.  Since the liner is between the scale and the tang, I'm not sure it much matters.  Stay away from 5 minute epoxies unless you're really sure you can assemble and clamp things in 4 minutes.  I use the 30 minute stuff and don't mind waiting for it to cure. When I glue the slabs/liners to the tang, it's what I use.  You have to make sure you mix it long enough; most people don't.  The best way I can describe it is that the epoxy is fairly stiff when you start mixing, and then after a couple of minutes of stirring it suddenly becomes easier....it's ready at that point.


When you buy 5/32"  pins to fit those same diameter holes, it's going to be a tight fit, believe me. Not only through the metal, but the wood also.  You need to be reasonably gentle when pounding them through, since you can crack the handle wood, if that's what you're using.  Some people use special presses, or carefully use their vise(padded with glued leather strips) to do that.  I use number and letter drills on my tangs/handles which are a couple to a few thousandths of an inch larger than the pin, and make it much easier to place them in, held in place by epoxy.  If I want strength, I use Loveless bolts or Corby's instead of straight pins. One other thing, if in your case you get the pin safely through the tang/handle material, some people say you need to peen the pin a bit to ensure a snug fit.  First of all, that's kind of a throwback to pre-epoxy days, however if you choose to do so, be gentle.  When you expand the pin beyond its diameter a bit, that creates permanent pressure on the handle material.  Expand the pin too much, and eventually the handle material will crack from that constant pressure.  See it all time on old wood or bone handles.


I hold bolsters on with pins that are hammer welded into the bolster hole until it's difficult to see they are there unless it's a different material.  In the case of your knife blank there are no provisions for a bolster or a guard so you needn't worry about that at this point. 


Best thing to do is get a good book/video on basic knifebuilding.  It'll be a lot easier than reading my posts, especially when it comes to the area of actually fitting and attaching the handles/bolsters to the knife.  If the book/video does say to solder or weld a guard(on a stick tang) or bolster, let me know and I'll give you an alternative method that works just as well.  The stuff I've included here is things that you might not normally find in a basic text, which I've learned and it's made my work a bit easier.

Online Graybeard

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 12:47:00 PM »
Once upon a VERY long time ago I was a butcher at Kroger.

I can't speak for all butchers but none I met and worked with in those days called any knife a butcher's knife. We basically used two different knives for all our work. One was a 10" steak knife and the other a 6" boning knife. We had a couple other sizes/designs but well over 90% of the knife work was done with those two.

It has always amused me mildly how commonly the 10" steak knife and some others are referred to as butcher's knives. This is not intended to take away from the thread merely to provide a little history on what real butchers use and what they call the knives they use. Dunno what the heck butchers of today do.


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Offline Dave223

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2011, 01:58:16 PM »
Joel,
  Thank you very much for the information! Its sometimes hard to picture what must happen step by step having never done it myself. I tried looking at videos on youtube to figure things out, but I think the books will be my next step before buying a blank. Thanks again, Dave

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Offline Joel

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2011, 07:31:30 PM »
Yeah, when I worked for a grocery chain, the butchers never even mentioned their knives, most of which were by Fiskars and looked like boning and kitchen knives.  The term is common up in this part of the Alleghenies though where farmers, homesteaders and small mom and pop grocery stores do a lot of the cutting.  Local farm supply houses list "butcher's tools and knives", and there's everything from sheepskinner looking things to plain ol' knives.  Of course these people dress, skin and butcher out the meat, plus in some cases kill it,  so there's a bit more diversity.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 01:46:44 AM »
Yep Joel, that'l do.
 
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Allegheny Butcher Knife
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2011, 05:48:13 AM »
Nice design and execution, Joel!
The shape, from my experience, is a cross of the Nessmuk and the tip of the Kephart, and as you suggest, likely a good useful shape at that. I have considered getting one of the 'sheep skinner' blades to do a quick & dirty version, but yours is a drooler, for sure and for certain.
Keep 'em coming, you are an inspiration!
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