Handi-knock off

[leprecon21]

  CVA scout. not even a .308
looks like they are jealous.
http://www.cva.com/rifles-scout.php
I think I'll stick to the handi


21

[geezerbiker]

Interesting, I wonder who is making it for them.  In years past CVA sold some seriously bad muzzle loaders so it remains to be seen if this rifle is worth a crap...

Tony

[ibgp3]

I expected it to be a rebranded Rossi, but there appear to be differences that go farther than that.





Pretty clear where they want to be in the market.

[ironglow]

Yes; obviously a knock-off, but competition can only make the original better...so long as Remlin has good management.
  Looks price competitive right off, with the mount & rings coming in the original price..plus a certificate for an upgrade stock !
 
  The most critical aspect..how it shoots..remains to be seen.
 
 
 
 
    BTW: ibgp3...love that signature line by Mark Twain !  Do you suppose somehow he could look forward to 2011 ?

[Mad Dog]

I bought one, last year, in 44 mag.  I intend to hunt deer with it, this year, here in Indiana.  What I liked, was the twist on the 44 mag barrel[1 in 20].  I have a nikon 2-7x prostaff mounted on it.  It is very accurate.  My son has a handi 44 mag that he hunts with, and has killed several deer with it, in the last 3 yrs.  I'll tell you more after deer season.
 
 
Mad Dog

[boatboy]

I think two companies can make a good product.
I handed on and thought it looked good
I dont understand a local Gander Mount has had one on clearance in 45-70 I thought it was a great deal but have 2 45-70 probably dont need another. Its cheap and been there a while


Last year I switched from a Thompson Omega 50cal ML to the CVA (I think accura) just for a change and the way you load the primer. My ONLY complaint with the Thompson. The CVA functioned well
Put a Sightron SIll 1 to 6 and put some meat in the freezer and had fun
I guess thats what its all about


Hank

[geezerbiker]

I looked over the CVA site and they say they are using Bergara barrels.  I looked up Bergara and they're out of Spain.  This still doesn't tell me much...  They're used to be some good guns coming out of Spain but now, who knows...

Tony

[carbineman]

I purchased a stainless Scout in 7mm-08 and really like the rifle.
 
I posted a review here;
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,224213.0.html
and here;
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,226311.0.html

[Jimbo47]

It looks like they shortened the distance between the latch and the lug pivot on the rifle which means it has to have a pretty close tolerance to lock up, which means better accuracy with less slop.
 

[ibgp3]

Carbineman and Maddog can tell us if the receiver is shorter, or just covered by plastic stock extensions.

[myarmor]

We do have a CVA forum here and lots of rifle reports about too.The Scout looks very promising to me, plus Bergera makes excellent barrels.
-Aaron

[mechanic]

Competition is healthy.  If no one challenged H&R, they soon would produce only junk.  It's the law of the jungle, and of free enterprise.
 
Bring on the competition!  It will be better for those of us who like the break barrels....
 
Ben

[Spanky]

I sure wouldn't call it a knock off. If you look at one and handle one you would see that it's a vastly different rifle. I've got one in 44 mag and it's very accurate. They are using fluted Bergara barrels, the triggers are light and crisp, they have a one piece scope mount, the forearms are attached directly to the barrel and do not touch the frame, etc.
Check one out... you might just like it.
 
 
 
Spanky

[spikehorn]

 
 
 
 
    BTW: ibgp3...love that signature line by Mark Twain !  Do you suppose somehow he could look forward to 2011 ?

The more things change the more they stay the same

[ironglow]

Spanky;
    My mistake: poor choice of words, I guess.  When I agreed that it looked like a "knock-off" of H&R, I meant nothing derogatory about either one.  I simply meant that possibly CVA was inspired by H&R to enter the field themselves...

[geezerbiker]

I haven't seen any of the CVA rifles for sale here,  It's going to be interesting to see if they can compete price wise...

Tony

[spikehorn]

Well traditions entered the single shot field also, so that might be were CVA was trying to compete too.

[carbineman]

Carbineman and Maddog can tell us if the receiver is shorter, or just covered by plastic stock extensions.

Here is a pick of both and SB2 with Topper barrel and CVA Scout with forend off. The SB2 measured about 5.75" and the Scout 5.5" lengthwise, though the Scout's buttstock was attached and part of the synthetic of the buttstock hides part of the receiver.
 
I like my Toppers, My one handi and my one Scout. They are different yet operate along the same parameters when shooting them. The Scout was accurate out of the box, and had a 3.1 lb trigger pull. My Toppers and my Handi were made to be accurate and trigger pull has been adjusted on some of them. The only drawback to the Scout is the breeching lever position. It could open easily while carrying if you were going thru the thick stuff. The Handi/Topper has a much better breech lever position. I think the price of the Scout is fair for an all stainless rifle compared to the price of a Handi.
 

[quickdtoo]

Well traditions entered the single shot field also, so that might be were CVA was trying to compete too.

They entered the market for a while, but then dumped them, they list no centerfires on their website, only MLs.

Tim

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/

[eye shot]

One of Bergara's head consultants is Ed Shilen of Shilen barrels.

[mdwest]

They entered the market for a while, but then dumped them, they list no centerfires on their website, only MLs.

Tim

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/

I can 100% confirm this. I actually called traditions about a month ago to try to order additional bbl's for my "outfitter". not only are they not importing them anymore (the guns were actually made in Spain by Ardesa), they have none left in stock, no replacement parts, no additional bbls, etc..
 
I called Ardesa (they still make the rifle and sell them around the world under several different labels.. and all they could tell me was to call traditions.. they wont sell parts to an individual..
 
 

[xhare]

Rather than a knock off, I consider the Scout a wake-up call...for the Handi rifle.  I have handled several of each recently.  The Scout feels like higher quality to me.  Carbineman's comments about the lever position is good, in addition its a bit hard to reach in that its not an easy reach for your index finger.  But that is my only complaint, and a minor one. Other than that, the metal work is more attractive, the bluing is very attractive, they offer most if not all of their calibers in stainless, the hammer is a low profile, a nice scope mount is included.  There is no tightness at all in opening the action, it effortlessly opens just from the weight of the barrel. 

In short, a number of the complaints you read about on this forum are not issues with the Scout.  When I can find a stainless 44 mag, I will buy it.  I would like a 223 as well, but they don't make one yet.  If the Scout stays around, it will give the Handi a run for its money. 

Prices I see are largely similar to each other.  The Scout is aimed at the Handi market, as their Apex is aimed at Thompson.     

Oh, if you have to have a wood stock, stick with the Handi.
 

[tacklebury]

If you like iron sights also.  I personally don't use optics much. 

[geezer56]

I've tried 3 Handi rifles in 35 Whelen, no success with any of them.  Failure to fire on all 3.  Not very confidence inspiring.  I got a CVA Scout in 35 Whelen, so far, not one FTF in over 100 rounds.  It shoots the ones that wouldn't go bang in the Handi.  CVA has a decent product, price is equivalent to the Handi, accuracy is on a par with the Handi, but it just doesn't feel as good in the hand as the NEF.

[xhare]

Scout compacts are available with open sights.

[max1138]

I bought one of these "knock off's" last week in 35 whelen after my handi had to go back to the factory for the 2nd time.  I think im done with handis in 35 whelen.


fit and finish are above handi standards,It just looks better than the handi in stainless  with no hodgepodge of pins thru the action.   the action locks tight no gap to the breechface that I can discern, theres no perceptible side to side play in the action it has a rebounding hammer,no transfer bar to fall out and the trigger feels good. it comes with a good soft recoil pad and a nice set of scope mounts.
 IM not wild about the breeching mechanism but Ill adjust. so far its fired everything Ive run thru it remington and hornady factory loads and my handloads. in short I think its what NEF could have built if they paid attention to quality.


one downside is weight or lack therof in a whelen, at 5.8lbs without scope it is a beast under recoil with 250grain factory loads.  im working on a reduced 200 grain load with ftx bullets and h4895 that Ill test once I get a better scope fitted(right now its got an old 6x bushnell that I had laying around on it just to test function)
another downside is its not meant to be broken down there is a retaining pin that has to come out to remove the barrel from the action, I havent played with it to see
see if it can be made into a quick breakdown setup yet.


so far so good,Ill reserve a final judgement till Ive put more rounds thru it and see how it groups  and if it continues to function without something breaking or misfiring. 


 I understand the allure of handi rifles but my experience with the whelen has soured me on the brand.
 I realize theres not a lot of profit margin in these little rifles fit and finish are less than what one expects in a more expensive weapon and thats ok, marginal groups are acceptable given the cost, after all if it will hit a 9" paper plate at 200 yards thats a dead deer/hog/elk but I do expect my weapons to go bang when the trigger is pulled no matter the cost, something the handi has failed to do with disgusting regularity so far.

[Spanky]

I think its what NEF could have built if they paid attention to quality.

 
I love my Handi's but you hit the nail on the head with this statement.
 
 
 
Spanky

[Jason F]

I have one of the three whelen barrels being talked about in this post I am using 30-06 brass and with a little adjustment of the dies my ftf issues are a thing of the past and it shoots 200 grain hornady bullets great ,don't give up on the whelen handi barrels they can be made to shoot

[Spanky]

don't give up on the whelen handi barrels they can be made to shoot

 
H&R should have worked the bugs out of the Handi Whelen barrels before they went to market... kinda like CVA did.
 
 
 
Spanky

[max1138]

I have one of the three whelen barrels being talked about in this post I am using 30-06 brass and with a little adjustment of the dies my ftf issues are a thing of the past and it shoots 200 grain hornady bullets great ,don't give up on the whelen handi barrels they can be made to shoot

It isnt so much the headspacing issue which I can and have similarly cured with reloading  but overall  quality. my smith did some good work to get the barell centered and the latch working properly but when the transfer bar falls out twice and a replacement barrel sent has the scope mount holes so badly out of line that you cant dial it back to center with 2 .020 offset burris signature ring inserts there is a big problem in quality control. too big for me to ignore.
 when my handi comes back from the factory this time it will be sold, either here or locally, as is where is and good luck. having been burned 3 times by this rifle im done with it. Ill use the money to purchase a better quality scope for the scout, swap the nikon to my marlin levergun and buy a lot of reloading supplies. 


shame really, I had wanted to get other barrels, maybe a shorty 357 max or 44 mag shorty but I will never trust that action again so off it will go, leaving a very dis-satisfied customer behind carrying a different make of firearm.