Author Topic: History Written by Winners?  (Read 667 times)

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Offline DDO

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History Written by Winners?
« on: January 08, 2004, 06:31:08 AM »
Naturally most history is written by the winners of whatever conflict occurred. But I would like to at least have the loser's viewpoint to examine. Now some of our liberal revisionist do this, but only to put a bad light on USA/Western achievements. That is not what I'm seeking!

I think that is the allure of Dances With Wolves. It gives a fairly honest picture of the Indian's viewpoint of the whiteman moving into their territory.

I think a fair topic for this sort of treatment would be the "Gunfight at the OK Corral". I have a suspecion that the "Cowboys" could be put in a much more favorable light. I think they may have had a "lifestyle" that was being run over roughshod by the miners and townies. Something like we native Northern California's face with the flatlanders moving here because of the "lifestyle" then immediately wanting to change it because there is no culture or shopping.

Another one may be the story of the Dalton's. After all they did start out as lawmen.  

Finally. Can anyof you recommend a good source of material on the "Oklahoma Gaurdsmen" Tilghman, Thomas, and Madsen? From what little I have read about them, they did more law work than any of the famous lawmen; Hickock, the Earps, Materson, etc. combined.

Dewight
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Offline Cheyenne

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History Written by Winners?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2004, 04:45:28 AM »
You're right about the winners writing history, that's the natural order of things.

As to Earp/Clanton and the street fight near the OK corral, niether side was lily white.....The "Cowboys" lifestyle was stealing other people's stock.....this would hardly copmpare with the traditions and culture the Indiasn had, where you obtained wealth through warfare.....these were 'civilised' white men who stole cows and horses, and mules.....the Earps where much 'cleaner' and socially acceptable, by 1880's standards at least.....yes they were, for the most part 'Sporting Men' (gamblers), but in the 1880's, Gamblin' was a legitamit occupation.  Yes, James was married to a 'Lady' who sold her favors and they together employed other ladies to do the same, but until most 'cow towns' became civilised, and many afterwards, the brothels were a legit business too.  

In the Victorian age, many cities had brothels and some were licensed by the city, etc., and it was acceptable for 'gentlemen' to visit these places on occasion to sate their earthly desires.....this type of behavior with your wife was relegated for occasions when a child was wanted by the parents.  Maybe this is what our Grandfathers meant when they talked of the good old days!  :-D

Back to the Earp/Cowboys situation, maybe this was mearely a turf war between rival gangs, as some have said........the fact remains, we'll never know for sure, but documents do tend to support the Earp side a lot more than they do the 'Cowboy's'.  If you really want to read some modern day propaganda, find "Ike" Clanton's web page.....he contends the Clanton's and McLaureys were "honest" cattlemen........we know that Army Mules were found on the McLaurey's ranch, and they 'braced' Virgil and the US Army over them........several of their "associates", such as Curly Bill and Johnny Ringo, were known rustlers, Sheriff Behan's own deputies were arrested for stage robbery......I think the situation in and around Tombstone, AT was really 'wide open' during the 1880's, much more so than we really know.

In the testimony following the street fight, both Virgil and Wyatt testified that the cowboys cocked their pistols in their holsters.....yes, I watched the recreation of the gunfight on History Channel, but I do not buy the theory of Holiday cocking the shotgun as being the signal to start the fight....for one, the TV editied in the sound of a revolver cocking....I have two original hammer guns dating to the 1880's-90's and they hammers are barely audible when cocked, and sound nothing like the distinctive Colt cocking sound.........I've had folks say that you can't cock the revolver, but most modern type CAS holster are much thicker leather and stiffer than those commonly used in the 1880's, my reproduction holsters I use are made very closly to original partterns and you certainly can cak the revolver in it, and do it easily......it makes me wonder if this is not more representative of the Old West 'fast draw' than we have been led to believe.....maybe that is why some of the old gunfighters were so fast on the draw......they had their hand on the gun and cocked it BEFORE drawing it.......most old time holsters were fairly deep pouches and little more than the grip was exposed on many, which would not be condusive to a smooth, fast draw.

This one fight has more detail than many as to the tactics employed, and that is one area that is always skimmed over......I suppose it is because most historians are not really into guns all that much.
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Offline Big Hext Finnigan

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History Written by Winners?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2004, 05:07:28 AM »
Yeah, what he said..  :wink:

But also, that's just another reason to win the war.  And another reason to NOT let the winners get crucified by the politically correct, who want to "balance" out the story.

When two groups have been drawn into battle, two things are true.  First is that both have failings and are not pure as the driven snow.  Second is that they don't share common values.

Just a couple more thoughts.
But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.  - Edmund Burke