Author Topic: Swiss Schmidt Rubin K31 Rifle (Read 2238 times)

Doc Lisenby · « **on:** October 08, 2003, 11:27:46 AM »

Anyone have any opinions on this rifle?
Doc Lisenby

savageT · « **Reply #1 on:** October 08, 2003, 11:52:04 AM »

Doc,
I've heard they are great......as in Swiss watches, very accurate and strong! The biggest draw back I know of is the cost of the ammunition, but if you reload, I would say you're pretty much got it made.
http://swissriflewebsite.com/

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #2 on:** October 08, 2003, 01:11:41 PM »

They are great rifles. I've got two. You used to be able to get excellent ones from companies like AIM surplus for under $100 but the supply has dried up a bit. You can still get a very good one if you shop around.

Surplus ammo is GP11 it is FMJ and berdan primed. Someone is now importing Russian berdan primers so it may be possible to reload it. The GP11 is advertised as "match" ammo and it is very good.

FNM imports some ammo made in Portugal that is a source of boxer primed brass but little more. It is also FMJ. It appears to be under powered. I've taken to pulling the bullets and dumping the powder when I want more brass rather than firing the stuff.

Norma makes 7.5 X 55 Swiss brass but it is expensive.

Graf & Sons have said that they will have some imported brass for it for about the last 9 months.

It is also supposed to be possible to form the brass from .284 cases.

The bullet is a standard .308

Sierra has load data for a number of different bullet weights and powders.

Doc Lisenby · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2003, 02:58:50 PM »

Thanks guys. The Swiss Rifle site is great. Glad someone knew something about the K31. Most people I know just give you a blank stare when you mention it. I've heard mumbles about it for a lot of years but I looked closer at it and have one on order. I'll let you know how I like it when it gets here.
Doc

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2003, 08:38:03 AM »

Doc: they are great rifles. I had one and loved it and the only reason I let it go back to the feller I originally got it from was because I spoke so highly of it that when he had to let go of the 45 I traded him, that was the one rifle he wanted back.

They are classic examples of Swiss engineering and are well made. That straight pull bolt takes about 2 seconds to get used to and then you will love it.

Ammo, the 7.5x55mm Schmidt Rubin, by Norma is expensive but, Graf and Sons, for one and somebody else are making brass so you don't have to go crazy trying to form some of your own. The bore diameter is .308 so bullets are commonly availalbe. I found the power range to be midway 'twixt the 308 and the 30-06 and she favors the heavier bullets in the 180 - 200 grain range.

Mine was accurate and pleasant to shoot. The straight pull bolt is as fast handling as the SMLE bolt. Ya'll can have a lot of fun with a rifle like that and fill your freezer without much effort. HTH. Mikey.

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2003, 10:21:37 AM »

Quote from: Mikey

Ammo, the 7.5x55mm Schmidt Rubin, by Norma is expensive but, Graf and Sons, for one and somebody else are making brass .

Yes, Graf and Sons has said that they will have brass: last January, in May, in the Spring, in July, in the Fall...

Graf and Sons brass for 7.5X55 Swiss is like Bigfoot. Everybody knows somebody that's seen it but you can't get to that person that's actually laid eyes on it themselves.

Doc Lisenby · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2003, 01:33:48 PM »

Yeah Jack and the boys over at the recommended Swiss Rifle Site are still bitching about Graf not having it in stock. One of the sweeties there said it was an import inspection problem. Do you reckon that it is made in China? I'll lay odds that it ain't Lapua brass! :wink:
I'm itching to try the K31 out. I already have some of the Norma brass and have reloaded a few test rounds. Now if I can just see how well it shoots I'll be happy. It should be here Monday and after a couple of days of cleaning I'll start developing a load. I'll try the 175gr Sierra Match first being as Mikey metioned that they like the 180-190gr bullets. I showed one of the cases to a customer and he said that it looks a lot like the .308 Winny.
If it shoots as well, I won't complain.
Doc

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2003, 01:25:49 AM »

The brass is being made supposedly in an Eastern European country. I've read on other forums the excuse that with 9/11 there are too many restrictions etc. But how does that jive with the fact that there are complaints that almost no sea containers coming into this country are inspected? Fresh flowers and bread are flown into this country daily. Maybe it takes a while to set this up but I read a post by one guy who said that he's bought 7.5X55 Swiss from Grafs before. Also, they now have loaded 7.5X55 Swiss for sale ( it's not cheap ) and have had 7.5 X 54 French cartridge and brass both for some time. Did they get that from a different source?

Does Graf's wait until they get enough orders and then contract for a run of brass?

I think that you might want to get a small amount of the GP11 ammo to start out with, just to show you what you rifle is capable of. SOG still has it.

txpete · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2003, 03:27:52 PM »

on a recent range trip I brought along my k-31.we were zeroing deer rifles at 100 meters.
with my handloads I printed a 1 1/4 in. group better than a guy with his scoped sav 110.
150gr hornady sp
39.0 gr IMR 4064
norma brass
wlr primer.
be warned k-31 rifle have a short throat and load book's have the WRONG oal listed.make a dummy round for referance.
pete

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2003, 01:15:37 AM »

This site has an excellent discussion of how to determine the correct trim length of individual swiss S&R rifles.

http://swissriflewebsite.com/FAQ.htm

Using this with the Stoney Point OAL tool with a custom 7.5 X 55 cartridge prepared by Stoney Point you can get the proper OAL for your rifle.

I consider the above website THE best S&R reference on the web.

NavajoNPaleFace · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2003, 04:18:00 AM »

I don't know about anyone else's K31 but mine has a unique trigger pull.

You squeeze, squeeze and suddenly and unexpectedly....boom!

There is no 'hang up' or 'feel' to tip you off your are at max trigger pull like on other rifles.

It takes a little getting used to but I love it....smooth.....sweet.

However, because of no hammer fall warning you can't rely on trigger squeeze and hold prior to the shots like other rifles.

The K31 is little known secret and one of finer guns to collect.

Incidentally, has anyone found the soldier's issue slip of paper or cardboard under the butt plate?

Some have them....some don't. I was lucky to have had one.

savageT · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2003, 04:22:45 AM »

Alan,
Sounds like a little lithium-molydisulfide grease might help that trigger sear smooth out.

Jim

Doc Lisenby · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2003, 09:19:14 AM »

Seems to me your are describing a typical "military" trigger. These triggers are designed to function like this for safety reasons. I have never seen any military rifle without this kind of trigger, but I haven't seen all of them either.
They take some getting used to but being as I learned to shoot Garands at 17 years old and have been shooting military triggers for 53 years, I don't notice the difference. That long pull until you get to where the sear and trigger marries is called "slack". Glad you like it. Me too. Gives you additional time to make sure of your target, start holding your breath and ensure a proper sight picture. "Take up the slack" is a common expression in marksmanship instruction. It may prevent you from "jerking the trigger" which is a big no no in accurate shooting.
Doc

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2003, 01:18:50 AM »

Quote from: NavajoNPaleFace

I don't know about anyone else's K31 but mine has a unique trigger pull.

You squeeze, squeeze and suddenly and unexpectedly....boom!

There is no 'hang up' or 'feel' to tip you off your are at max trigger pull like on other rifles.

It takes a little getting used to but I love it....smooth.....sweet.

The K31 has a two-stage trigger. What you should feel is a slight resistance as you first pull the trigger back through about 80% of it's travel length. Then, you will feel the trigger bottom out. At this point if you apply normal trigger pull it only has maybe 1/8 inch of travel and will fire. If you don't feel the two distinctly different resistances there might be something wrong.

It is a great trigger. Every bit as good as a double-set trigger IMHO.

Quote

The K31 is little known secret and one of finer guns to collect.

Agreed.

Doc Lisenby · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2003, 03:04:53 AM »

I just checked my K31 trigger and the initial "first stage" is 1 3/4 pounds and the "second stage" 3 1/2 pounds. As a Marine Corps Armorer, we had to do a lot of honing and part changing to get the required minimum of 4 pounds on the Garand. Of course there is a whale of difference in a semi auto trigger compared to a single shot bolt action. I admire the crisp "let off" of the K31. Not as good as a Jewell, Rifle Basix or a Timney which I put on custom rifles but a grand difference in price. The K31 trigger is the best trigger I have ever found on any military rifle. One of the worst is the M16 trigger, I just replace them with after-market triggers on customers' rifles, rather than spend hours honing and tweaking them.
The K31 has some back lash but most shooters wouldn't notice it unless he knows what to look for. Fine trigger! Just plink away and enjoy the excellent accuracy and soft recoil and remember to take up the slack. I can remove the first stage but it isn't necessary, nor in my case, desirable.
Doc

Groucho · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2003, 11:11:23 AM »

Grafs has the brass, they shoot great, and don't look too mil-surp. Well worth the 100-150 you can spend.

RB Rooson · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2003, 04:58:50 PM »

Just bought a K31 and am very impressed.

Can buy all of the 7.5 x 55 ammunition that I want (price is $29.00 per 60 rounds).....do we in Dallas have some type of corner of this Berdan match quality round?

Everybody keeps saying how difficult it is to find........

SBF · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2003, 04:02:57 AM »

I also have a K31, it's currently my favorite Milsurp rifle to shoot. Besides being very accurate with the GP11 rounds (I don't reload yet) it get a lot of conversations going at the local range when folks see the straight pull action and the brass flipping out of the action. As mentioned the K31 has the best trigger of any C&R rifle I've ever shot.
I had called Eric at AIM a few days ago and through the conversation he had mentioned that they should have some more K31's in the near future. Not sure of the condition or any details about them but if they look like their last batch I'll get a few more.
Don't forget to look under the buttplate on the rifle as well when you get one, it may have a little tag with the name and unit info for the soldier it was issued too.

BTW - The last GP11 I bought at a gunshow was $25.00 per 60 round battlepack.

Kenneth L. Walters · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2003, 05:13:22 PM »

The supplies of these, as near as I can tell, are running out. I believe that what Century International has left might be going for under $75.

Both Century and J&G have realistic pictures of their guns. Not beautiful but a fair description. FGS has BEAUTIFUL pictures and much higher prices. Unfortunately, however, their guns are no better than Century's or J&G's. So be careful where you buy.

Also if you want one don't wait too much longer.

SBF · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2003, 04:41:14 AM »

Quote from: Kenneth L. Walters

The supplies of these, as near as I can tell, are running out. I believe that what Century International has left might be going for under $75.

Both Century and J&G have realistic pictures of their guns. Not beautiful but a fair description. FGS has BEAUTIFUL pictures and much higher prices. Unfortunately, however, their guns are no better than Century's or J&G's. So be careful where you buy.

Also if you want one don't wait too much longer.

Century is running a sale currently for 3 K31's for $203 ($67.66 each) or $89.00 if bought singly IIRC

RB Rooson · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2003, 06:16:32 PM »

Did I read correctly someplace that you can use .284 Winchester brass and a .308 bullet when reloading for the K31?

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #21 on:** December 14, 2003, 03:16:48 AM »

Quote from: RB Rooson

Did I read correctly someplace that you can use .284 Winchester brass and a .308 bullet when reloading for the K31?

You can apparently form .284 Win. into 7.5X55 S&R.

http://www.swissriflewebsite.com/FAQ.htm

but Grafs and Sons still seems to have brass as of this writing.

http://www.grafs.com

And yes, the bullet choice is standard .308 .

1911crazy · « **Reply #22 on:** December 14, 2003, 03:40:39 AM »

Quote from: savageT

Alan,
Sounds like a little lithium-molydisulfide grease might help that trigger sear smooth out.

Jim

Jim you got the hang of it get that "MOLY" in there!!!!!!!! You won't believe the difference this natural mineral can make!!! Now with that said being that there is more and more collector/shooters by the minute you would think these bullet manufacturers would jump on the band wagon and start making some of this scarce ammo?

This is were we really fall short in our country we never see the market value until someone else does it first?? I have been hoping that a company like S&B or Igman would start making 7.5 swiss, 8x50, 8x56r, 7.5 french, ect. I'm sure there is a lot more pistol and rilfe. Back when I got my first M39 mosin 7.62x54 the ammo was $30 for hunting ammo and $59 for 300+ rd can of surplus then it became scarce along with 7.62x39 if anyone remembers that time. Now things have changed there is plenty of everything but the uncommon stuff and i hope someone steps up to the plate and makes all of it for us there is an overlooked market of shooters. Sorry for my rant I get off my ammo soap box now. BigBill

RB Rooson · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2003, 03:50:33 PM »

Shot small military match this last weekend and......the K31 Schmidt-Rubin is one heck of a rifle!!!!

Like shooting a Swiss Watch with the kick of a .30-30.....gonna git me a second one in the near future!

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #24 on:** December 31, 2003, 01:01:44 AM »

AIM apparently got more and are selling them for $89. I don't know about the quality. I read on another forum about a guy who got one who said it was mechanically fine but looked like it got run over by a truck. I don't know if he is describing one especially bad or if it's just the usual ice rash.

SBF · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2004, 09:07:50 AM »

Quote from: Jack Crevalle

AIM apparently got more and are selling them for $89. I don't know about the quality. I read on another forum about a guy who got one who said it was mechanically fine but looked like it got run over by a truck. I don't know if he is describing one especially bad or if it's just the usual ice rash.

I have one from AIM, as mentioned the metal is in good shape with only slight blueing loss on some edges. The stocks on pretty much all these K31's recently will show various degrees of wear. Most often the buttstock area will be a little worse for wear since they had a tendency to get stacked in the field which was often snowy. Mine shows this wear, the tag under the buttstock shows that the previous Swiss owner of the rifle serve in the Mountain Infantry. They still clean up quite nice though. For the price they really can't be beat.

BTW - I have ordered 3 more that should be at my house tomorrow!

RB Rooson · « **Reply #26 on:** January 13, 2004, 05:36:17 PM »

I shoot Cowboy Action alot and I mean ALOT!! But, I actually enjoy my K31 Schmitt-Rubin to no end......one of the most accurate rifles that I have ever fired.

As mentioned previously, it was abit rough in the stock but if you take some care and try to restore it you will pleasantly surprised.

This straight-pull rifle is one of the best finds on the gun market today....impeccable in it's craftsmanship and the barrel, breech and bolt are in exceptionally fine condition.

Talk about a tack-driver.....well, need I say more?

You should own one of these, just to say you have one!!