HELP-large groups at 50 yds with new 44 REM mag tried 3 brands of ammo ????

[Bull Nutria]

Am at wits end, has new plastic stock have fired over 100 rds, 225g hornady,240 g Win, 180 g Rem, also tried handloads with 225 Hornady and Blue dot.(various powder levels). Best group- 3in at 50 yds(Win 240 g). most groups 4-6inches or more at 50yds. I have a 3x9 bushnell bone collector with Leupold High mounts.
what steps can i take to tighten up these groups? the trigger pull is crisp but very heavy i am guessing at 8lbs or more!!
Bull
 

[Bull Nutria]

I forgot to mention that this rifle will not shoot 240 g cast SWC bullets reloads, I tried blue dot , long shot and Unique with various powder weights , absolutlely sprayed the rounds all over the target and backstop at 50m yds!!
i suppose it has an oversize bore that will not stabilized these cast bullets! Help!!
 
Bull
 

[quickdtoo]

Welcome! The factory accuracy standard is 2" 3-shot 100yd groups with factory ammo, if it won't do that with a dry latch and shelf, it might need to go back to them for repair. But start by reading the Handi Basics 101 sticky, there are some important steps you must be aware of when shooting an H&R. Make sure the scope mount is mounted correctly per the FAQs, wouldn't be the first one that was loose from the factory, there are accurizing tips in the FAQs and Help sticky if it needs further attention. Cast bullets are another matter, .432" shoot best, but it depends on when it was made (see year of mfr in the FAQs), those made ~2007 had tighter bores and shot .430" cast bullets good.

Read first, make the necessary corrections, if any and report back how it does. 

Tim

[jjas]

Tim's right about the loose mount.  I've owned two handi rifles and both had loose mounts.  I think it's a Remlinhr (remington, marlin, H&R) thing.
I've mentioned the scope mounts, a buddy of mine has a 1894 that had several loose screws and I purchased a marlin 795 the other day that the front sight almost fell off......must be a loctite shortage .........
 

[parson48]

I don't know what you might be using for a rest, but I recently tried using a small metal cradle rest and the fore end would bounce at every shot, resulting in terrible groups. It took me longer than I like to admit to figure out what was going on. I placed a small sandbag on the rest and the results improved immediately.

I've shot for a lot of years and know better than to shoot off of a hard surface, but apparently had a "senior" episode.

Just another thought to consider.

[Bull Nutria]

i did have a loose picatinny rail,(all 3 screws lose --i loctited them down as well as all scope screws)that wasted about 40 bullets the first day. second day i had a new scope that would not adjust for elevation, i shot the rifle this pm(3rd day)it on the target. with win 240 gr white box bullets. 3 inch group maybe?? evidently 44 mag shoots like a freaking rainbow. if it is on a 50yds it will be super high at 100 yds.
what do you recommend for zeroing for deer hunting with this Win 240 grain. i was thinking right on at 50 and +inches  ? at 100yds.
i used a lead sled this am but read the sticky and used sand bags on a concrete shooting bench this pm backed up to the trigger guard.trigger is so hard it is tough to shoot a group less than 3inches! i even tried  taking the fore end off but it did not seem to help. i have read about an o-ring on the forend stud? does the o-ring go between the fore end screw and the stud or what?
my 44 has a very thick contour barrel, how may shots does it take to get it hot enough to affect groups? perhaps that is my problem.
I am all ears on suggestions.
bull
 
 

[jloehm]

Your situation sounds similar to mine this summer.  Slug your barrel, I got a barrel from the factory this summer with micro-groove rifling that mics at .4305,  so check that.  I literally had hundred of round through mine before I found something that was reasonably accurate!  I did all the tricks and jumped through all the hoops. I've settled on Hornady xtps on top of H110.  Try not cleaning it,  and shooting it dirty that may help.  I had so many fits getting mine to shoot that I'm actually scared to clean my barrel in fear that I'll be back to square one with my accuracy.

[Bull Nutria]

Man that is a good idea, i have read that new rifles need serious scrubbing to remove burrs etc. i think i'll leave it dirty and try that. i have 225g hornady plastic tips to reload and a few factory rounds left. what a hassle, seems like thes handi rifles aren't all that handi!!at least mine is a work in progress. di dyou try any cast bullets? oversize that is? .432 or so.
 
bull
 

[jloehm]

 di dyou try any cast bullets? oversize that is? .432 or so.
 
bull

 
Nope,  I got the 240 xtps to 1.75" at 100 yds,  And cloverleafing at 50, so I'm sticking with that. I tried 4 different projectiles and 4 different powders in all configurations.  The xtp/H110 load workup got better and better as the load got hotter.  Did you check for micro groove rifling?  I've heard alot of discussion with cast and microgroove barrels.  My son has a .44 ballard rifled barrel that cloverleafs 200 gr. nosler JHP's on top of Unique, again the dirtier the better.

[Bull Nutria]

how do you check for micro groove? i bought the gun this week so i think it is remlin HR?? it does have [ots of grooves etc in the bore.
1 .75in grp sounds wonderful!
 
bull

[jloehm]

12 grooves instead of 6.  Believe me, I can't explain the relief of hitting on a load that worked!  Before this load it was 6-12" at 100.

[Bull Nutria]

Jloehm,
you may have saved me a major leaque hassle, i plan to get some of those 240g xtps and some H110 and give it a try. thanks for sharing your info on the240 xtp bullets, What powder weight gave your best group? do you need the magnum large pistol primers for that H110 load ?
my rifle definitely has the 12 microgroove rifling. is that good or bad?
Why is 44mag  in a Handi rifle such a difficult combo? it is a good thing I reload for 44mag because this new rifle would be like a boat paddle as for as accuracy(READ WORTHLESS)!i know about those 6-12inch groups at 100 yds, I shot quite a few with this rifle over the weekend. very frustrating!
Thanks again.
Bull
 

[Bull Nutria]

Jloehm,
Did you have any trigger work done on your handi rifle, my trigger pull is atrocious--must be 8 lbs!!!
Bull

[jloehm]

1. yes, trigger work done as per FAQs.  It was ridiculously heavy now tolerable with almost no creep and crisp break.
2. My load was:
240 xtp
H110 (do a load workup) start around 23.5 and bump up towards max 24.5
cci 350 primer
starline brass
  *this load worked in my handi with microgroove,  will it work in yours?  I don't know, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[steelworker]

 The load that worked the best for me was 21.1 gr of IMR 4227 under a 240 gr. Hornady XTP.  1 hole at 50 yards.

[c1skout]

+1 on the IMR4227 with the XTP240gn.  My gun also likes a light (starting) 44 special bullseye load with a 180gnXTP.

[Bull Nutria]

Range report: I tried again and was able to shoot off sand bags a 2in group at 50 yds  and a 2.5 in. group at 100yds. i used the Win white box 240g JSP. I don't have time to develope a reload for this primitive weapons season this weekend. i plan to develope a more accurate load in the future with the 2400 or 4227 as suggested here with the 240 g XTP.
I will also get a trigger job done on this rifle as it is really bad now!!
I am open to any suggestions and am all ears.
thanks for your input ,
Bull
 
 
 

[jloehm]

2.5" is pretty good!  I'd stick with the winchesters and forego reloading unless you plan on shooting ALOT!  I didn't have any luck with those.

[Bull Nutria]

Hi Jloehm and others,
you have a good point, i tried your suggestion of not scrubbing the bore after each trip to the range. it may have helped some. if the repeatibility of the WIN 240g factory ammo holds i just may forego reloading.
But i really like a challenge and may try the .432 cast bullets after i slug the barrel. i would like to shoot those clover leafs you were talking about and a 1.5 in group at 100yds.
thanks for your input and the input of others. I am going deer hunting this weekend and will let you know if i score!!
Bull