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Author Topic: How many swagers also Paper patch?  (Read 2078 times)

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Offline Donna

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« on: December 19, 2002, 05:34:38 PM »
:D Hey Guys and gals,

I know there is a paper patch forum here but I was just wondering how many of you swagers also put paper patches on your bullets? and what type of performance do you really get? :-D
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Offline Lead pot

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2002, 12:40:35 PM »
:D Hi Donna,Corbin has a book you can down load free there #8 swaging book is good.Just go to there sight at www.corbins.com and go to books.It takes about 20 minutes.
And for your other post I use PP.it workes verry good in my Sharps,it has tapered rifling but it has'nt worked to good in boath of my Browning BPCR it tears the patch.I have to have a nother die made of smaller diameter so it fits the bore.Lp.
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Dont go were the path leads,go were there is no path and leave a trail.

Offline Donna

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2002, 01:59:48 PM »
Hello Lead Pot,

Yes the #8 swaging book is good. Have you tried their other books, if not I highly suggest getting them, I have all of Corbin’s books.

What is a Browning BPCR, other than a rifle? I'm mostly familiar with the high and low wall rifle.

As you can tell I'm not a blackpowder girl myself, sorry for my ignorance in blackpowder shooting.
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Offline Lead pot

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2002, 02:53:17 PM »
:D HI.Donna>well you will just have to git one of them once you shoot one of them you might never go back to the none smoking kind it gets in your blood.
When I say BPCR I mean the Browning mod.1885 High Wall BPCR.
No #8 is the only one I have it was free :-D Lp.
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Dont go where the path leads,go were there is no path,and leave a trail
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Dont go were the path leads,go were there is no path and leave a trail.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2002, 01:24:58 PM »
Donna - good question.  I've done some minor paper patching and years ago some swaging.

Could a bullet be swaged into the patch?  I.e.: a preformed paper or plastic patch (sabot?) slid into the swaging die and then the lead or lead alloy and then swaged.

There was a fellow back in the 50's that had Lyman make up some special moulds (I have a few) and he'd insert a 'washer' of the right metal and diameter into the mould.  

I'd like to try something similar, Bokers makes all kinds of washers to whatever size is required, using swaging tools rather than casting.

There are many materials that could be subjects for experimentation.  For example, altough a little on the LARGE BORE side, 1/2" cpvc pipe is exactly 0.625" in diameter - which is exactly the bore diameter of my single shot 20 gauge rifled barrel shotgun.  Swaging with the right equipment could produce a viable projectile.

I've rambled.  Obviously I'm looking for discussions a little outside the normal box.
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Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline wiley

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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2002, 07:25:11 AM »
molds by Lyman were designed by Jim Harvey. They were called Harvey Prot-X-Bore, and made for 357. 44, and 45 calibers. CH4D still sells the washers.
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Offline bfoster

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2002, 01:50:15 PM »
Lead Pot,

The problem with tearing paper patches may be a function of the depth of the rifling rather than the diameter of the bullet. Many of the old rifles that were designed to shoot PP bullets had rifling that would be judged quite shallow by today's standards- on the order of 0.002"/side. You might also check out different papers. From time to time I'm able to find some very thin (~0.0015"), very tough, and thus very satisfactory rice paper. One other point- sometimes the "Chase" patch will work better than the standard double thickness patch. Why? I don't know, but 'tis so...

BTW, I hope you don't consider original Winchester M1885's to be beyond the pale as BPCR's :wink:.

regards,

Bob
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2002, 07:21:56 AM »
Thanks Wiley on the CH4D tip.  My FIRST press was a CH (1963).

BFoster - has anyone published (paper or electronically) research on types/thicknesses of patches?  Interesting observation you've made.  Is there a limitation on the 'fastness' of the twist with the shallow grooves?

Leadpot - thanks for the note on the downloadable info from Corbin.

Thanks,
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Offline bfoster

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2002, 08:09:06 AM »
The only monograph I know of that is dedicated soley to paper patches is Hilliard's The Making and Loading of Paper Patch Bullets. I don't have a copy of this book so I can't comment on it. There are 3 pages of excellent information on paper patches as used in the original rifles in Sharpe, Philip, The Complete Guide to Handloading, Funk & Wagnall, New York, 1937 (and succeeding editions). A wealth of information is scattered in driblets through old books. Perhaps the most accessable is Gould, A.C., Modern American Rifles, Bradlee Whidden, Boston, Massachusetts, 1892, pp 290-295. This is oriented more than Sharpe to the practical, rather than theoretical side of things.

There are several web pages, perhaps the best is Brent Danielson's page.

Bob
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Offline Donna

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How many swagers also Paper patch?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2003, 01:33:22 AM »
I would like to thank all of you that answered this post. Your responses were all very interesting. Thanks again.

Donna  :D
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"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:19-20
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