Cast boolit harder than jacketed? When?

[tacotime]

At what hardness point does a cast boolit become harder than a jacketed bullet? That is to say, at some point can these cast ones be rougher on the barrel than jacketed?

Do any of the commonly available commercial cast bullets (like LaserCast) get into this hardness level?

Now that I look at these 350 grainers, they do seem pretty hard. I have found them on the ground after shooting at 1200fps into a dirt bank and they were only scuffed, not deformed.

[BBF]

It depends on the other metals mixed with the lead. Muzzle loader projectiles are pure soft lead.( Sabots are not part of this)
 Most cast bullets are alloys and are hard compared to pure lead. Air cooling or water dropped bullets are different again.
 
Most cast bullets will not expand and depend on their nose shape and velocity to create large wound channels. Paper patched  bullets are an exception, being very soft and will deform on impact.
 
 To the best of my knowledge no cast bullet is hard enough to damage a rifle barrel but they can certainly lead them up.
 
I don't think it is realistic  to compare hardness of cast vs jacketed bullet.
 
Most commercial casters publish the BH number of their products some give you a choice when purchasing.

[jhalcott]

Why would you WANT such a hard bullet?? Buffalo hunters used fairly SOFT alloys to kill buffalo. They NEEDED the softness so the bullets would SLUG UP to fill the bore when the black powder went off. It is harder to prevent bore leading using alloys too hard for the powder charges. I've killed quite a few deer with pure lead and other alloys including Linotype.Air cooled Wheel weight is about the easiest to use,though it IS getting harder to find. I've managed to shoot them to 2000+ fps in Thompson Center contenders. The alloy CAN be rougher on the barrel IF it is high in tin or other metals. A pure lead bullet roled in sand can ruin a bore. It's NOT harder than steel ,but the sand does the work. Some papers have a high clay content and frequent use can also wear on the bore. I cast some cannon balls for a cannon once. These were for decorative purposes, but COULD have been shot through that gun. They were honest solid cast IRON balls about 6 inches in diameter. I believe they were harder than jacketed bullets!

[tacotime]

I wouldn't want such a bullet - I am wondering if I already have them.  I went to cast on this rifle just to shoot cast being cheaper and easier on the bore.  I'm just wondering at what hardness point if any, that cast is as wearing on the bore as jacketed, and if any common commercial cast bullets are that hard, specifically, whether these Lasercast ones are anywhere near that hardness level.

[Anduril]

.........................whether these Lasercast ones are anywhere near that hardness level.

no doubt they are hard. Commercial casters like to use a hard alloy so their bullets don't get dinged up during (rough) handling and shipping. But even a hard lead alloy is going to be softer than a copper jacketed bullet. Load 'em and shoot 'em.
..
 

[BBF]

Best to my knowledge those buffalo hunters back then used paper patched bullets.

[Graybeard]

Monotype metal is likely the hardest that you can make lead. It's harder and lighter than linotype which is harder than any commercial bullet maker uses. None of it is as hard as jacket bullet alloys.

Your cast bullets are not wearing out your barrel tho the powder going down it will eventually.

[wncchester]

"... at some point can these cast ones be rougher on the barrel than jacketed?"
 
No.

[Drilling Man]

"... at some point can these cast ones be rougher on the barrel than jacketed?"
 
No.

  I agree, i've been shooting hard cast bullets since the 70's, and i've yet  to see any bbl wear from them.
 
  DM

[williamlayton]

I doubt that many/most of US will ever shoot a barrel out.
I was under the impression that jacketed bullets were much easier on lands and grooves.
I am not too concerned about leading but I am concerned about abnormal leading and build-up.
I am learning from this discussion.
Blessings

[cjrjck]

You got access to the man when it comes to hard cast bullets. Check out the "Ask Veral Smith" section of this outstanding web site. Roll Tide!

 http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?board=114.0

[res45]

At what hardness point does a cast boolit become harder than a jacketed bullet?

 Copper is around 35 BHN,LaserCast bullet are around 24 BHN there probably some of the hardest commercial cast bullet available.  I used to shoot LaserCast bullets in my 357 Mag. revolvers many years ago before I started casting my own at 24 BHN you can push them to Max velocity as long as they fit properly and get no leading at all.  Most of my cast handgun and rifle bullets are much softer than 24 BHN.  A hard cast bullet is neither good or bad when used for it's intended purpose you just need to match the alloy hardness so that it preform as intended with the pressure and velocity your load generates.
 
 

At some point can these cast ones be rougher on the barrel than jacketed?

 Not really, dirty gritty alloy might rough up your bore some but for the sake of argument lead bullet want wear out your bore.  Throat erosion is the main enemy of any firearm a firearm is only going to last having a certain number of pound of powder fired through it.  Burning all that powder in large quantities and in rapid succession without allow it to cool down in between shooting secessions will wear out the throat much faster than spreading all those shots out in smaller loads and over a longer period of time. 
 
 

Now that I look at these 350 grainers, they do seem pretty hard. I have found them on the ground after shooting at 1200fps into a dirt bank and they were only scuffed, not deformed.

 A 24 BHN bullet is pretty darn hard as cast bullets go,mine generally run for 8 to 16 BHN the only bullets I cast that's remotely that hard are for my semi-auto rifles mainly for feeding purposes through the action and to help eliminate any gas port leading.  1200 fps. is plinking load and mid range 357 load velocity in my loads,if your bullet is 24 BHN your not going to get any bullet deformation unless it hits something harder than itself. 
 
 Dirt is just going to scuff it up a bit.  I recover many of my plinker  and mid range 357  load bullets from the dirt berm to remelt and shoot another day.  There BHN is around 12 and the noses are usually mushroomed or folded back to some extent.

[wncchester]

res45 is correct, we don't 'wear out' steel bores with bullets of any kind, it's the throats that burn out.  It takes about 5,000 rounds of normal .30-06 to destroy a throat.  Proper cast bullet loads are so milld it would require tens of thousands of rounds to do any significant throat damage.

[anachronism]

Your powder is the enemy with throat erosion. Part of the problem is that powder is ignited from the wrong end efficiency-wise. Everything would work better if we could ignite the powder charge from the bullet end, so the powder could burn more completely in the case instead of being blown forward into the throat while igniting. This effectively sandblasts the throat and the first part of the rifling. I really don't believe that jacketed bullets are that hard on the bore either, if they were, the bore would "wear" more evenly down it's length. Copper is much harder than lead, and is usually tested on the Rockwell "B" level.

[Lloyd Smale]

its a tough question to answer. No lead alloy is even close to the hardness of copper. So i doubt you could ever wear out a barrel due to friction from lead. Hot gases escapeing around a poorly fit bullet might case gas cutting but actual friction of lead on steal isnt going to wear a barrel. Another thing that could wear your barrel is contaminates in your alloy or dirt stuck to your bullets. Cast bullets are about dirt magnets. Now the reason you will recover cast bullets that look almost like they could be reloaded and shot again and not jackted is that in another way there harder then jackted. The alloys most use to cast with is much harder then the core material of a jackted bullet. For the most part cores of jacketed bullets are pure lead. They use the jacket material to control expansion where a caster has to compromise on alloy hardness to get the expansion he wants. Bottom line is if barrel wear is your only consern youll shoot out a barrel 4 times faster with jacketed bullets then you ever would using cast at the same velocitys. that been said ive yet to run across a barrel that was wore out from shooting jacketed bullets. Ive seen some with the throats erroded so badly that they needed to be replaced and ive seen barrels that were worn from shooting corrosive ammo and from bad cleaning procedures but never from bullet friction.

[tacotime]

Excellent info. 
 
As for wear from cleaning, what do we consider bad cleaning methods?  And do you use any ammonia copper solvent?