Feedback to share and advice sought on Lee Collet dies for CF rifles

[inthebeech]

My first bench session reloading my 257R with these dies was interesting.  I thought to share a couple observations and invite feedback on what I might do differently to improve things before I go back to my tried and true Redding brand.
 
The neck sizing force necessary to get good tension on the bullet can vary considerably as it is dependant on getting that twenty-five pounds of force "feel" at the reloading handle.  I ran twenty cases before seating the first bullet and the tension was far too light and I had to run them through all over again.  I am still not convinced that the neck tension is at all close to consistent from case to case but all of the bullets were clearly seated firmly at least.
All cases were made up with boat tail bullets which seemed to have a larger diameter at the tail-to-body transition because there was a noticable lightening up of seating force when this transition made it all the way through the neck;  It doesn't protrude very much in to the case body which I know is objectionable.  I don't think this has anything to do with the sizing die type.  Maybe I've just never seated boat tails this deep in the case.
One case was used to seat a flat based bullet which mangled up the neck so badly I had to pull the bullet and trash the brass.  Perhaps this one case was excessvely sized down too much - recall that this is a very subjective thing.  The case mouth was not belled (since these are not cast bullets and chamfering is all that I've ever needed to do to bottleneck case mouths) but I did chamfered the inside.
The traditional method of finding the optimum seating depth through trial and error with small adjustments of the seater die, doesn't work here.  You are supposed to screw the seater die down until contact with the shell holder and then make slight adjustments with just the seater plug.  This doesn't work very well because the O-ring on the seater plug threads prevents one from fine tuning the bullet's depth using this "feel" method.  When I tool the O-ring off, the seater plug's threads are very sloppy in the die, not to mention that the plug is made of aluminum.
I definately see quite a bit of innovation in these die sets for sure.  I just think that maybe the advantages of this concept are a bit clouded by marginal workmanship and materials.
Opinions?

[topper88]

The first time I used the Lee collet die sets a year ago I thought exactly like you.  I spent time reflecting and reading here how they work.  Found some You Tube videos on using them.  Now I use them exclusively.  It helps if you use the same brass to duplicate brass neck thickness.  When using the decapping neck size collet die I start at only a quarter turn after the shell holder touches the die mouth.  Then I test fit by hand the bullet I intend to use.  Make sure the inside of the case neck is beveled for new brass.  When I can barely press the bullet into the case with my fingers I stop tightening the collet die.  If I go just a smidgen tighter for a thousandth bullet pull, I then flare the case mouth the bare minimum with the Lyman M die so the flat base bullets sit neatly on top before I work the handle.  If I have made my settings correctly I can't feel friction from the bottom part of the M die, just the last flare bump at the end of the stroke. On boattail base bullets I skip the Lyman M die. I always use the factory crimp die set to a minimum tightness to snug things up and take out the neck flare so the bullet can't be twisted. I don't tighten it so much to leave a crush imprint like the factory does. This works the best for me.

When I get a set of collet dies I disassemble them and use emory cloth to lightly polish the cone at the top of the collet then I lubricate with just a small smear of lithium grease and reassemble.  This smooths out the stroke and I get a better feel for when the die bottoms it's stroke.  It's quieter too and scratchyness goes away.

The dead length bullet seater is what I use for jacketed bullets and I adjust the die body as you described and the bullet seating knob down until all of the cannelure is inside the case.  It seems precise enough for my needs.

The time you save lubricating cases for full length sizing then cleaning it off is a great savings.  With less brass working the cases last longer. Also I feel that I am more able to exactly duplicate loading tensions from session to session.  If I switch to different headstamp brass I reset the the collet to compensate for brass thickness.  Sort of like you would have to do with the different bushings for the Redding neck sizer dies but with the Lee you get all diameters with just a twist of the die body. I prefer Remington brass as it seems to be the thinnest and more closely to correct length.  When I use cast lead bullets in Remington brass it seems to be give me the best results with a minimum of case neck bulge.

There is a learning curve involved.  With out Greybeards and the internet it would be a few lifetimes.  So less than a year is good.  Better luck.

[wncchester]

"Opinions? "
 
I got my first Lee collet neck sizer maybe 22 years ago just to see what they were like.  I soon had one for every one of my accurate cartridges and haven't used a conventional neck die since.  Yeah, there's  moving part and, yeah, it takes a bit of learning to use properly - it's not a simple "push the case in, pull the case out" like the others - but it's worth taking the time to learn to do it. 
 
The collet's inside mandrel does three things for us:
 
*  It minimizes the amount of neck working so cases last as long as possible.
*  Done properly, it limits the sized necks for all of the possible 'bullet tension' that means anything. 
*  It insures the straightest possible finished necks so runout is minimimal.
 
The Dead Length seater screw plug is nothing but a fixed stop for the floating internal nose punch, seating pressure will take out any slack you may see when it's not under pressure and it will not move unless the user turns it.  Used correctly, that seating die will eliminate any OAL variations due to press spring or sloppy operator technique.
 
Sounds like you got an object lesson that it's good to chamfer necks before seating even if you aren't using lead bullets.  That crunched neck thing wasn't because of the collet die, it would have happened eventually no matter what sizer die you used.
 
Many jacketed bullets do have a tiny bulge at the heel.

[tacklebury]

They work perfectly on my 30-40 Krag and 7.5x55 Swiss loads so far.  These are the first bottlenecks I've loaded, so others probably have a lot more experience with them.    I'm shooting a 5" 250 yard group with Hornady 180gr. BTSP using the iron sights on the 1911 Swiss which is plenty consistent for me. 

[gray wolf]

Try a little Teflon pipe tape on the bullet seater die. apply a few raps as needed above the O ring to take up a little of the slop.  Works for me.
 The best seating dies I have are from Forester, if you know how to work with them you don't need the Micrometer head ( save a little cash )
The advise on how to tune the Lee collet dies given above is well worth listening to.

[MZ5]

the fourth thing the collet die gives is exactly the same neck I.D. no matter the brass neck thickness. No other type of sizing die will accomplish this.

[Grumulkin]

In my mind, the big advantage to the Lee Collet Die is that no messy case lube is needed.  If it makes satisfactory ammo for you then all is well but in a couple of cartridges I load for, accuracy was quite a bit less with cases sized with a Lee Collet Die compared to cases sized the traditional way.

[cwlongshot]

I am one of the bigger LEE haters dislikers on GBO... BUT,  I have to give credit where credit is due and say, The Collet Dies have made my accuracy loads... more accurate.
THERE I said it.. The LEE Collet Die is a GOOD product!!
 
CW

[wncchester]

"I have to give credit where credit is due and say, The Collet Dies have made my accuracy loads... more accurate.
THERE I said it.. The LEE Collet Die is a GOOD product!!"
 
Bless your heart CW!  I din't think I would live long enough to see you post something like that!       

[cwlongshot]

"I have to give credit where credit is due and say, The Collet Dies have made my accuracy loads... more accurate.
THERE I said it.. The LEE Collet Die is a GOOD product!!"
 
Bless your heart CW!  I din't think I would live long enough to see you post something like that!       

     As I said, I have to give credit where credit is due... (As well as when it is not )
 
I also do like the little finger case trimmer too...
 
But just to be clear, I still feel the same about the rest of the line. 
 
CW