Bullet placement?

[1sourdough]

 Nice picture Hank, I like that bullet placement too.  As posted above, you got to be careful with any head shots. I usually wouldn't take one.

[Land_Owner]

Off hand shooting facilitates poor bullet placement.  I am lousy shooting off hand and won't do it for that reason.  There are a plethora of adequate and sturdy rifle rests in the woods, both man made and natural, to not use one.  Many do not sight in their scope prior to the season or after it becomes apparent, or suspected, that their sights are off.  Factory ammunition, while consistent, is probably not the most accurate for your trigger-barrel-stock combination...if it is, consider yourself lucky, and when that specific box of bullet-powder lot-primer is gone, so too may be your accuracy.  Accuracy can be a fleeting thing with factory ammo and the non-reloading shooter none-the-wiser for why this season he can't hit "the broad side of the barn".

[bilmac]

I have the opposite opinion from Landowner. I see everybody at the range shooting from  a bench. Everybody is making nice little groups, but nobody is practicing their marksmanship. I don't know where they find their rests when they hunt here in Wyo, but for the most part, if you can't lean on a vehicle, you are going to be shooting in one of the positions we learned in basic marksmanship. That's how you have to shoot when you hunt where I do, but nobody practices, it's more fun and satisfying to make those pretty little groups.

A typical scenerio, the way I kill probably 75% of the animals I tag. I take a walk away from the pickup, a deer or antelope stands up from taking his nap. If I even so much as kneel the critter will be obscured by brush. So I plink it from the offhand. Most of my shots land in the chest.

Guess it all depends on the terrain you hunt, but I have quit spending hour after hour at the bench and instead I use the bench to hold my bullets while I plink.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

   I am with land owner...I want a good rest before a shot is taken...the Harris bi pod is my answer...

[Land_Owner]

I have the opposite opinion from Landowner...Guess it all depends on the terrain you hunt...

A tip-o-the-hat to you Sir.  My sentiment exactly.  Go with what you have.  Here, natural (and man-made) steady rests are in abundance.  There, no natural rests... 

Practice, practice, practice.

[Swampman]

Shooting in the military and at High Power matches taught me to shoot both ways.  I will always take a rest when I can, but most of the deer I kill are running.  I don't practice shooting off hand, because I already know how to.  I shoot from a rest to tune my rifle and ammo.

[bilmac]

I shoot a lot of running critters too. Too bad it's so hard to get some of that practice. I learned how shooting at jackrabbits back in the days they were abundant. I've been training up the grandkids. Next summer I'm going to start them shooting at chunks of wood racing by them in an irrigation ditch. BB guns of course.

Landowner, If I lived where you do I would only shoot from a rest too.

[LanceR]

I would note that the heart/lung area of the smallest legal deer is at least 10" when viewed from any angle, including from head on.

If you use a 8-9" paper plate for a target instead of little bitty bull eyes you will get a better evaluation of your skills.  The last time I checked deer don't come with target reference points on them.  You need to be able to pick out your intended impact point and bullet path from a larger mass.

Practice from the kinds of positions from which you will shoot when hunting.  Practice until you can keep all your shots on the plate.  Now back up and do it all again.  When you start missing the plate and you can't keep all the shots on it you know that the last distance where you COULD keep all your shots on the plate is the furthest you should be shooting at game. 

Since the plate is smaller than you hunting target area it builds in a bit of extra wobble area for when the hunting monkey jumps on your back and starts shaking the firearm....

If you shoot from a rest and want the results to transfer to shooting away from the rest you must hold the forearm the same way you will when hunting.  If the firearm is resting on a shooting rest it will recoil differently from the way it would if you were holding it and when you move away from the rest and support it with your hands the zero will generally be invalid.

For instance a firearm will generally recoil away from a firm rest.  If you zero that way and then shoot unsupported you will most often shoot lower than the intended impact point.

Simply holding the firearm in your hand and using the same support hand back pressure towards your shoulder as if you were shooting unsupported while resting the back of you hand on the shooting rest will usually result in a supported zero that is the same as your unsupported zero.  Pull the rifle to your shoulder and then lay the back of your hand on the rest.

Thanks to all for a good thread. 

Lance

[Spirithawk]

My son and I both hunt with single shot rifles. His a T/C Pro Hunter 7mm mag and mine a T/C Encore .270. Hunting with single shots forces one to hone their skills. Been hunting with mine since 01 when I won it in a contest hosted by Dave Watson and Bushnell. I've killed one Pronghorn and many Whitetails with it since, always aimed behind the shoulder, never required a second shot and never lost an animal. My son loved my rifle, and the fun of using a single shot, so much so that he handed his Ruger Mark II All Weather 7mm mag down to his oldest boy. What ever you shoot, both it and your style of shooting should fit both the game hunted and the terrain you hunt in. That's just good ethics and wise hunting. Where you place your bullet is a matter of choice, ethics, and skill.

[Swampman]

When properly shot off a rest a rifle will shoot exactly the way it does off hand.  I see plenty of folks who don't know how to shoot off bags.  Shooting in field positions really tells you nothing about your rifle or ammo.

[Spirithawk]

When properly shot off a rest a rifle will shoot exactly the way it does off hand.  I see plenty of folks who don't know how to shoot off bags.  Shooting in field positions really tells you nothing about your rifle or ammo.

This is one of the rare ocasions we agree on something. But only half of it. The first half. I think shooting off hand, and from various positions, can tell you a lot about your rifle and load. Such as does the rifle truly fit you and can you shoot the cartridge accurately and comfortably in any situation. Just my opinion, and like your's, everybody has one.

[Hooker]

Shooting from a bench with a good solid rest lets you know what your rifle and load are capable of.
A rifle and load that shoot tiny groups of the bench is great confidence builder. Having confidence in your rifle and load is the first step to shooting accurately in other positions. Practicing from field positions is a must if one is keep their skills in top form. Just knowing how to shoot accurately is not enough. You have to practice to keep the mental and physical aspects of shooting sharp. Case in point I have been slacking in the practice of my pistol shooting, and my shooting skills are showing it. Even so I help lots of novice handgunners at the range improve their skills at our gun club. I know the mechanics of shooting well but my lack of practice has made me sloppy. I can still shoot well if I work through the those mechanics but what use to be and automatic reflex is now more laborious  because I have neglected my practice. All the knowledge in the world will do you no good if you don't put in the practice time in the different position especially the hard positions like offhand. Don't fool yourself if you are a good shot and you are not practicing your not as good as you once were and not nearly as good as you could be. After all it's not like practicing is no fun.

Pat 

[too phister]

New too this forum stuff but, last year I killed an elk with 308 150 corlock @175 yds, he droped right away and I couldent find a bullet hole, My butcher told me I hit him high enough in the front shoulder to brake his sipne, lost about a baseball size chunk of meat. 10" encore in the field with a custome stock as to be steady as heck .I'll back up your combonation and practiceing with field conditions. Drop were they got shot is great but When U pull the triger you commit yoursself to do all you can to ensure that animal suffers as little as posable. Practice in field conditions.

[KAYR1]

Head shots are guesome and often inhumane. I've put down three deer with broken or missing jaws. I always try for heart-lung so as not destry meat. I do like a high-shoulder shot forbang-flops when in crowed hunting areas.

[shot1]

I always try to go in or come out a shoulder when possible. If a deer is facing you place the bullet high in the chest and if it puts it's head down facing you shoot between the shoulders about 6 inches down the neck from the shoulders. When you hit bone like the shoulders it imparts a lot of shock to the body and if you hit spine then are for sure DRT. After killing well over 200 deer I have learned there are lost of variables for bang flop. One is caliber of weapon used and bullet construction. You can have too much gun and too much velocity with heaver constructed bullets like for instance a 7mm mag with a new150 gr bonded bullet and place that bullet in the center of a front shoulder that misses the spine but will destroy the lungs and heart and that deer may run 100 or more yards before it realizes it is dead. On the other hand some calibers and bullets that will bang flop a deer 90% of the time in my experience are. 25-06 shooting 117 or 100 gr Sierra or 115 Nosler BT or partition. Any 30 cal. shooting 125 Nosler ballistic tip at between 2500 and 3000 fps. 270 Win and 130 Sierra or Ballistic tip. The exception for the bonded bullet has been in my 264 Win Mag with the 130 Nosler Accubond at 3350 fps. It is awesome for hammering deer from point blank to waaaaaaaay across a bean filed.

[yellowtail3]

That the guaranteed DRT shot... well, not guarantees. I've a pal who swears all his deer have dropped immediately after getting a 270, says it kills like lightning. I like the sound of that - I like the .270 - but since he used to shoot a 30-06 w/150gr JSP, I don't believe we can chalk it up to the cartridge.

I usually go for shoulder. Actually... if angling toward me, I shoot at the front of the facing shoulder. If angling away, I aim through body at the off shoulder (best bet).

No guarantees. I shot one 6pt through neck last year; bang-flop, I might start aiming for neck. An 8pt behind shoulders through lungs, ran about 40 steps or so. And last season I did my first-ever head shot, on a nine-pointer. I'd grunted to get him to stop, and he stopped and looked at me just as he entered thick stuff, all I could see was face and antlers... and at about sixty yards, I shot him between the eyes (I was in a tree, with a very steady sight sight picture). It worked like a charm. No exit; bullet needed up somewhere in the neck, I guess (150gr 30-30)

[SHOOTALL]

When properly shot off a rest a rifle will shoot exactly the way it does off hand.  I see plenty of folks who don't know how to shoot off bags.  Shooting in field positions really tells you nothing about your rifle or ammo.

It tells you about the shooter