.444 Marlin ML coversion

[kody]

     What bullet/sabot components  are available that would make it feasable to do the same conversion to ML as is being done with the .45-70?   KODY

[bikerbeans]

Kody,
 
I thought about this conversion a little and did some searching and did NOT find any bullets or sabot/bullet combos that might work.  The 444M has a bore/groove of around .430"/.424" (would need to slug your barrel to verify exact dimensions so you would need a conical or sabot that was probably at or less than .424".  The sabots that i found are for 54/52/50/45 & 36 calibers.  There may be others available.  If you want to convert your 444M to an MZ I think a conical would be maybe the only way to go.  You would probably need to cast a soft (pure) lead bullet that is larger than you want and then size it, this assumes that there are the proper sizing dies available.  You could also down size a 44 cal bullet but the hardness of a bullet cast for a smokeless rifle might not allow it to bump up well in an MZ.  Also, you could use a round ball with the appropriate thickness patch but I don't know how a RB would perform in the faster 1:20 twist of a 444M.  Let us know if you proceed and what results you get.
 
BB

[kody]

   Thanks Bikerbeans, that was about where I found myself when I hollered for help.   Ken

[bikerbeans]

Ken,
 
It's a shame the bullets and/or sabots aren't available, I think a 44 cal MZ would work great.
 
BB

[bikerbeans]

Ken,
 
I may have found the components for a 444 MZ sabot/bullet.  Not something commerically available.  Will try and get a range trip in the next week or so before bow season starts on the Sept. 24th.  If not, this will be a winter project.  Once I test will post results, good or bad.
 
BB

[bikerbeans]

Kody,
 
The 444M conversion to 44 cal MZ is possible.  I fired a few test loads today and got positive results, just need to fine tune to see how good it will shoot.   Here's what I did;
 
1. for a temporary breech plug take fired 444M brass and reprime but do not resize. 
2. Determine how much BP or BP substitute is needed to keep the sabot in the rifling.  For my test gun it was 70 grains by volume of BH 209.
3. Get some 410 shotshell cups, I was using two different types of Winchester.
4. Get some 38-55 cast lead bullets.
5. Play around with loading them in the barrel until you get a bullet/shot cup (sabot now) that has the right feel when loading.
 
6.  To shoot, insert a primed case and close the action.
7.  Then load like any muzzleloader.
 
The bullet/sabot combo I tried today was a bit loose and didn't give the best results, about 4" 3 shot group @ 50 yards.  I have some larger ID 38-55 bullets headed by way and will repeat this in the near future. 

FWIW, i think this conversion has some potential because you can get rifle bullets to use in the 410 sabot.  That is the downside to the 45-70 MZ conversion with a sabot you either have to use very pricey MZ bullets or 40 cal pistol bullets.
 
BB

[tom548]

I built a 45-70 ML about the same time Savage came out with their smokeless ML. It shoots great and the big draw back is the using of pistol bullets. They tend to be explosive at the speed I can push them. I have played with sabotless ML and think if I had the time it could be very accurate and would get the plastic and heat issue out of the way.

[bikerbeans]

I built a 45-70 ML about the same time Savage came out with their smokeless ML. It shoots great and the big draw back is the using of pistol bullets. They tend to be explosive at the speed I can push them. I have played with sabotless ML and think if I had the time it could be very accurate and would get the plastic and heat issue out of the way.

tom,
 
I also have a 45-70 converted to 45 MZ and I have shot No Excuses 385 grain 45 cal conicals.   I only shot a few of them but the accuracy was there and 90 grains of BH209 gave > 1,600 FPS with the 385 grain conical.  I also have tried some 280 grain cast lead rifle bullets that have been sized from .406 down to .401.  I used a Harvester crush rib sabot and 70 to 80 grains of BH209. The load showed some promise but I got side tracked and put it on the back burner until after hunting season ends.  For now I am using 204 grain, 40 Cal LSWCs in the harvestor sabots for my 45 MZ with the thought being the terminal performance of an all lead slug is a lot more predicatable than what can happen with a jacketed MZ bullet.
 
I am going to have a brass breechplug made for a 444M barrel and go ahead with the 44 cal MZ conversion.  I will be using 38-55 bullets in a 410 shot cup.  If this proves out I will make the conversion permanent, if not, then the breech plug goes away and I will have another 444M, nothing wrong with that.
 
BB
 
 

[PHATINJUN]

BB that is about what I figure I am getting out of my 209 converted .45 Huntsman. I shoot 385 NE conicals over 90gr BH have not chronied them but just based on the recoil it is deffinatly 1500>. I will be using this gun most of our shotgun season here in IL. If they won't let us use .45 Colt or 45/70 rifles you just need to adapt. And this one here is just as good .Kurt

[bikerbeans]

Kurt,
 
Good to hear that the NE 385s work in the slower twist 45 MZ.  I think Richard is planning on shooting conicals out of the 45 MZ he picked up recently.  Good luck hunting this fall.
 
BB