A Tale of Two Ruger Rifles....

[JPShelton]

Gents.....
 
Christmas was kind of bittersweet this year.  "Santa" re-gifted me two Ruger rifles that I had originally left under the tree for him back in the 1980s.  Both are in excellent shape and while I am happy to have them, I'd be happier not to, owing to the wherefore and why of how they came back to me.
 
The rifles in question are a Model 77 Ultralight in .250 Savage and a No. 1-B in .30-'06.  I bought two of those Ultralights in .250 at the same time for $250.00 each.  I also bought a pair of Leupold 2-7X Vari-X IIc scopes for them.  Mine was a dud, but the one I gave to my dad was a good 'un.   My dad used it as his main deer rifle for the next 10 years.  Aside from some bluing wear from being shot, the rifle presents as new.  The 1-B is an '87 model bought new from dealer stock in 1989 for $275.00. For reasons that only he knows, my dad is not a Leupold fan, and prefered Redfield scopes above all others, so I scoped the 1-B with a new 3-9X Redfield Tracker and sighted it in with my dad's favorite load -a 165 gr. Sierra GameKing HPBT over a middlin' dose of IMR 4064.  It shot that load in groups as small as 3/4" and I found out yesterday that it still does.  My dad only fired a couple of shots out of it, and it languished unfired in his safe for the next 23 years.  The 1-B is just as nice now as it was when I took it out of the box for the first time at the gun shop I bought it from.
 
The reason my dad decided to re-gift these to me is that he cannot shoot anymore.  He has an affliction called essentially tremor with symptoms like Parkinson's to the untrained.  He gave up deer hunting back in 1996 because of it.  Now, he can't shoot at all. 
 
The rifles are nice, and I'm grateful to have them, as most people who enjoy shooting sport would be.  And I appreciate the benefit of having shot both of them before and knowing how good they shoot.  An accurate 1-B in .30-'06 was my "holy grail rifle" from the time I was a little boy big enough to tell the difference between one make and model of rifle and another.  I can't think of a dandier whitetail rifle than an old tang-safety Ultralight in .250 Savage that is a known accurate shooter, either. 
 
What I would rather have had for Christmas, though, is a dad in good enough to shape to still be able to get enjoyment out of these nice pieces.
 
JP
 

[drdougrx]

Hey JP....it must be very hard.  For me at the very least, I'm glad your Dad is alive and will hopefully take comfort that his rifles are with his son and knows they'll be taken well care of.

[JPShelton]

Hey JP....it must be very hard.  For me at the very least, I'm glad your Dad is alive and will hopefully take comfort that his rifles are with his son and knows they'll be taken well care of.

It was hard, actually.  Older folk giving away their stuff sometimes isn't a good sign....  A few years ago, my dad's older brother was ill with cancer and wanted to give me an A y A sidelock double gun in 28 gauge.  As much as I would have liked to have it, I kind of brushed the matter off by telling my uncle to keep it, that he'd get better, and then he'd have a use for it, becuase we'd go back to hunting quail every year just as we had been doing since I was 15.  He died a few weeks later.
 
That gun wound up on Gunbroker with the rest of my uncle's guns.  If he'd have wanted it converted in to cash, he'd have done that himself when he was still alive.  But he wanted me to have it and to pass it on to one of my kids when I couldn't use it anymore.  He wanted it to stay in the family, so to speak.  His own kids have no interest in hunting and next to no interest in shooting sport, period.  Their kids have even less interest.
 
So when my dad offered to send me home with these guns, I decided to accept the offer gracefully.  They'll get used, but will be well cared for while I have custody of them.  Hopefully, my kids or grandkids will appreciate them when I've got not further use for them.
 
My dad still has about a dozen guns that he's not ready to part with yet, and I'm very happy about that.
 
JP

[Lloyd Smale]

Hopefully you can keep him shooting a bit longer. I gave my dad a browning blr 308 for a retirement present years ago. Hes been making noise at camp that its just getting to hard for him to hunt the last couple years. This year he tried to give me the blr back saying he didnt need it anymore. He did hunt this year but did struggle with it. I refused to take the gun. Im just afraid that if he gives up on things he loves he will just give up on life too and die. Even if he has to sit in camp and hunt out the window! Most of the guns he has were given to him buy me. Hes not into guns like i am. Everytime i gave him one i told him someday when he died id get them back. He sat down with me at camp this year and asked if i would be upset if he gave them to his grandsons when he died so he could leave them something. I told him i had no problem with it as long as it was WHEN he died.

[cabledad]

I was lucky and inheritated my Grandpa's 250 3000 rifle I am so proud of this rifle I want to take it out and kill a deer or a hog with it.Its really old.  I also inheritated my other Granddads 32 20 pump gun it's really a nice old rifle.My son killed a doe with it 20 years ago.

[hillbill]

family guns can be a quandry of sorts.ive never sold or traded any guns ive inherited or been given as presents by my family.i just dont have the desire to.some were old guns that had been in the family for generations from my gpa.some were new modern guns from my mom givin to her boys as presents.i treasure them all.
 
recently my 80 yr old dad came home from a trip with his dads mod 97 win shotgun that his brother in law had purchased from gpa when gpa quit hunting pheasant.he mentioned casually that he would like to see it back in huntable condition.i said let me mess with it and see what i can do.
 
i took it to a gunsmith and he restored it very nicely,not to new condition, but to what you would think a gun made in 1907 would look like if nicely cared for.i gave it to him during thanksgiving dinner.he was very touched but when i went  to leave he handed it back to me. i said no, this was your dads gun and you mite need it. i would love to own it someday but it was one of the few links he has to his dad.and he prob will shoot it at something. i just hope he dont carry it around in his farm truk like he does his model 90 winchester 22 wrf pump! lol

[eastbank]

i recieved my dads firearms as my older brother didn,t want them and my younge brother had passed and my two sisters were not interested,( both brother in laws were, but were not in the mix). after dad passed( my wife and i took care of him for over four years) and his possions were being divided up,my brother and sisters said you keep the firearms,i said i,ll pay you all for them and was told, NO they are yours. it sure met alot to me. this 7x57 ww-1 sportized deer rifle was my fathers favorite deer rifle. eastbank.

[hillbill]

i recieved my dads firearms as my older brother didn,t want them and my younge brother had passed and my two sisters were not interested,( both brother in laws were, but were not in the mix). after dad passed( my wife and i took care of him for over four years) and his possions were being divided up,my brother and sisters said you keep the firearms,i said i,ll pay you all for them and was told, NO they are yours. it sure met alot to me. this 7x57 ww-1 sportized deer rifle was my fathers favorite deer rifle. eastbank.

that is a awesum rifle from your dad and you have a real good family.i would treasure that rifle and your family.

[Lloyd Smale]

by the way i had one of the ultralight 250s. My buddy begged and pleaded long enough and i got talked into trading it to him. I ranks in the top 5 of the dumbest things ive done. That little gun was a sweetheart and shot everything well.

[JPShelton]

by the way i had one of the ultralight 250s. My buddy begged and pleaded long enough and i got talked into trading it to him. I ranks in the top 5 of the dumbest things ive done. That little gun was a sweetheart and shot everything well.

I was always envious of how well my dad's M-77 RL in .250 shot compared to the other one I bought for myself at the same time.  Now that I've got it, it isn't going ANYWHERE and I plan to get a lot of use out of it.  Like Lloyd's, this one is a sweetheart that shot a variety of loads well and some it shot really, really well in spite of it's 20" pencil-thin barrel.  I suspect I'll finish out my deer hunting career with it just as my dad did.
I haven't shot it since schlepping it home to Oklahoma from California, in spite of being beyond anxious to do so.  My dad also sent me home with over 1,000 rounds of ammo.  Aside from about 40 rounds or so that I handloaded, he handloaded all of it with 120 grain Sierra GameKing HPBT's in nickle plated R-P cases.  They sure are pretty, but the rounds he assembled don't chamber all that well.  I recall that being a source of frustration for my dad the last time he shot it. He wound up shooting up some 60 rounds or so out of 100 that I loaded for the similar rifle I owned.  I've got about 40 of those left...  100 grain Nosler Partitions in R-P cases.
As I mentioned, the M-77 RL in .250 that I had was a dud, and I didn't really miss it when it was gone.  If it would have been like the one I gave to my dad, and is now in my care, I wouldn't have missed it because I would still have it.  They're sweet rifles indeed when they shoot well.  They're supremely frustrating when they don't.  I reckon most of them do, though.
I did a tour of the local gun shops for 250 Savage factory ammo and found one shop that had two boxes of it.  It was kind of pricey at $37.00 a box....  But that with what's left of the handloads I made will leave me with 100 usable cases.  Somehow, I suspect that it won't be anywhere close to enough.

JP
 

[Lloyd Smale]

I lucked into a bunch of 100 grain corelock ammo. My buddy was selling his gunshop and gave me 10 boxes. Funny thing was that it outshot just about all of my handloads in that gun. Might be worth a try in yours. If nothing else a couple boxes for backup on the shelf wouldnt hurt. Like i said i really regret getting talked out of it. It was probalby the cutest little rifle i ever owned. Had some pretty nice wood for a ruger bolt gun to boot.

[DennisB]

Guys,  Not to drag this too far off topic, but, spend all the time you can with your Dads!!  Mine died the day after Christmas and we just got back from burial at Fort Sam.  He was 85 and had been going downhill all summer and fall.  I inherited a bunch of his rifles, including two pre-64 model 70s.  They will go to my grandsons one day.  But I'd toss them all for just one more chance to sit in a deer blind with Dad.

[eastbank]

yes, me too. there is not a day that goes by that i don,t miss my parents. they raised the five of us durning hard times and we never forgot what they gave up so us children might have a better chance at life. eastbank.

[JPShelton]

Lloyd, my M-77 RL in .250 used to shoot those 100 gr. Remington rounds really well.  That's what I used to sight it in with after I mounted the scope to it.  I was STUNNED at how well that rifle did with it compared to that other one that I bought for myself.  Remembering that took the sting out of paying almost $80.00 for two boxes of it a few days ago.
 
I'm soooo beyond anxious to shoot this .250, that I can hardly stand waiting for the range I shoot at to re-open (It's closed during deer season, which is still going on for archery here).
 
My dad had swapped scopes between this rifle and the No. 1 I gave him.  I swapped 'em back.  With that old Leupold Vari-X IIc back on it, that 77 RL is oh so sweet....
 
Actually, I didn't even bother to mount the Redfield Tracker back on the No.1.  I really dislike that scope.  I pulled the Leupold VX II off my Remington 721 and got that mounted on the No. 1.  Now I have to sight it in again.....   Might take a couple of hundered rounds to get it "just right", lol...
 
Now that I have this pair, I didn't see much of a point in hanging on to my Remington 721.  I like it, but I suspect most of my centerfire rifle attention is going to be focused on sending MatchKings down the bore of the No.1.  I got out of it for what I was into it for at a gun show today.  I used the proceeds to buy another Ruger -a Target Model .22/45 pistol, and put the balance left over in my shooting sports / fly fishing fund.
 
I'm thinking I need to make even more space in the gun room for a 28 gauge Red Label to keep the M-77 RL and No. 1 company...
 
JP

[Lloyd Smale]

40 bucks a box for corelocks! OUCH! I didnt have a clue they went for so much. I think the old boxes i had had 12 bucks on them.

[JPShelton]

Lloyed, with "firearmaggedon" going on and gun store shelves going bare, I'd have paid double what I did for those Remington factory rounds and not complained too much.  My understanding is that Remington only makes .250 Savage ammo in the summer for distribution in advance of deer seasons in most states.  So I felt fortunate to just find a couple of boxes to buy.
The initial hurt will soon be forgotten, though.  I still have my .250 Savage die set.  After shooting what's left of the rounds I loaded way back when and the factory ammo I just bought, I'll have a little over a hundred good once fired cases to reload.  The round should be pretty economical for centerfire going forward, as I seem to recall its appetite for powder being about the same as for my .30-30.  Also, while I was a big fan of Nosler Partitions and still am a huge fan of Barnes X projectiles in higher-velocity rounds like max-load .223 and .270, I don't think I'm going to get enough downrange velocity with a .250 Savage out of a 20" barrel to seriously overtax a simpler, less expensive "old school" bullet like Core Lockts or Hornady Interlocks.  I'd just as soon get the Remington bullets and strive for handloads that duplicate the factory load, because I know it shoots very well out of this rifle.  But I don't know if Remington still sells them as component bullets for reloading or not.
In any event, with a fairly small appetite for gunpowder and a not so pressing need for premium bullets, the .250 shouldn't cost me more to load for than my .30-30 does, which isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things.
I do seem to recall that the cases required more trimming and didn't seem to last as long as others.  My assumption was that the pronounced body taper of the .250 Savage cases caused them to "grow" a bit on firing, in spite of the modest 45,000 c.u.p. pressure limit.  I plan on backing off a bit from maximum, if I can still get acceptable accuracy, in order to hopefully extend case life.
I don't know what I'm going to do with the thousand or so rounds my dad loaded that do not chamber easily in the rifle.  I guess I'll pull the bullets and try re-using them in concert with properly adjusted seating and sizing dies.  That'll still leave me with gunpowder and primed cases to dispose of.  I don't share my dad's opinion that shooting them if I can close the bolt on them is a safe thing to do.  It doesn't sound like a smart one to me and I have no intention of trying it.
I sure would like to have a couple of hundered more empty, unfired .250 Savage cases, though.....  I'll make do with the hundred or so good cases that I'll have on hand and order up 10 100 ct. bags in the summer when Remington starts making them again, I guess.  I also thought about buying .22-250 cases and running them through my .250 Savage die but I don't know if I can go up from .224 to .257 in one pass without using a .244 expander in between.
Ah, the joy of shooting something "a bit different" than everyone else is shooting.....
JP

[hillbill]

Guys,  Not to drag this too far off topic, but, spend all the time you can with your Dads!!  Mine died the day after Christmas and we just got back from burial at Fort Sam.  He was 85 and had been going downhill all summer and fall.  I inherited a bunch of his rifles, including two pre-64 model 70s.  They will go to my grandsons one day.  But I'd toss them all for just one more chance to sit in a deer blind with Dad.

 yeah im taking yur advice to heart. my dad is 80 plus and even tho he gets around like a 50 yr old. he always says he wants to go fishing with me but then he is always too busy. and trust me he aint sittin home doin nuttin. he runs a 500 acre farm. im going to buy him a license and make him go.he will get as kik out of it this year.

[grdad45]

I inherited my Grandfather's 4 digit SN Mod 70 in 30-06. When my nephew reached 18, I passed it to him because he was the only direct male decendent of his Great Grandfather. I told him if he ever felt the need to get rid of it, I would give him fair market value for it, A couple of years later, I found out he pawned it, and never went back to redeem it. That was the last time I have spoken to him, the little t-1-r-d has no ambition except getting his next batch of dope!

[Lloyd Smale]

You shouldnt have any saftety problems shooting them. Only downside would be it could possibly slow you down for a second shot but in my experience with deer hunting second shots are pretty rare anyway.

Lloyed, with "firearmaggedon" going on and gun store shelves going bare, I'd have paid double what I did for those Remington factory rounds and not complained too much.  My understanding is that Remington only makes .250 Savage ammo in the summer for distribution in advance of deer seasons in most states.  So I felt fortunate to just find a couple of boxes to buy.
The initial hurt will soon be forgotten, though.  I still have my .250 Savage die set.  After shooting what's left of the rounds I loaded way back when and the factory ammo I just bought, I'll have a little over a hundred good once fired cases to reload.  The round should be pretty economical for centerfire going forward, as I seem to recall its appetite for powder being about the same as for my .30-30.  Also, while I was a big fan of Nosler Partitions and still am a huge fan of Barnes X projectiles in higher-velocity rounds like max-load .223 and .270, I don't think I'm going to get enough downrange velocity with a .250 Savage out of a 20" barrel to seriously overtax a simpler, less expensive "old school" bullet like Core Lockts or Hornady Interlocks.  I'd just as soon get the Remington bullets and strive for handloads that duplicate the factory load, because I know it shoots very well out of this rifle.  But I don't know if Remington still sells them as component bullets for reloading or not.
In any event, with a fairly small appetite for gunpowder and a not so pressing need for premium bullets, the .250 shouldn't cost me more to load for than my .30-30 does, which isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things.
I do seem to recall that the cases required more trimming and didn't seem to last as long as others.  My assumption was that the pronounced body taper of the .250 Savage cases caused them to "grow" a bit on firing, in spite of the modest 45,000 c.u.p. pressure limit.  I plan on backing off a bit from maximum, if I can still get acceptable accuracy, in order to hopefully extend case life.
I don't know what I'm going to do with the thousand or so rounds my dad loaded that do not chamber easily in the rifle.  I guess I'll pull the bullets and try re-using them in concert with properly adjusted seating and sizing dies.  That'll still leave me with gunpowder and primed cases to dispose of.  I don't share my dad's opinion that shooting them if I can close the bolt on them is a safe thing to do.  It doesn't sound like a smart one to me and I have no intention of trying it.
I sure would like to have a couple of hundered more empty, unfired .250 Savage cases, though.....  I'll make do with the hundred or so good cases that I'll have on hand and order up 10 100 ct. bags in the summer when Remington starts making them again, I guess.  I also thought about buying .22-250 cases and running them through my .250 Savage die but I don't know if I can go up from .224 to .257 in one pass without using a .244 expander in between.
Ah, the joy of shooting something "a bit different" than everyone else is shooting.....
JP

[JPShelton]

Perfect timing, Lloyd, as I talked to my dad again last night about this "tight chambering ammo" issue.  He pretty much had me convinced that "tight" wasn't anywhere near the potential problem that "loose" was.  He suggested that I go ahead and fire the ammo and salvage the cases by bumping the shoulders back a bit, reloading them, shoot them to fire-form to the chamber, and then proceed from there with my Lee collet neck sizer adjusted just as I have been successfully using it.
"No point in letting all of that loaded ammo and spiffy nickle plated brass go to waste" he said.
And I'm inclined to agree.  I wouldn't be using the ammo in question in hunting scenarios, anyhow.  Since getting the rifle home to Oklahoma, I have successfully handloaded and reloaded ammo that chambers correctly several times over, and I have enough primers and .257" bullets on hand to last a good long while yet.  So having ammo for hunting won't be a problem.
I reckon I could use the stuff deer hunting, though, as my experience pretty much mimics yours with respect to the rarity of the second shot.
JP

[JPShelton]

A little update...
I have been shooting the little M-77 RL "Ultralight" in .250 Savage extensively since the range that I shoot on re-opened at the beginning of February.  I've shot close to a thousand rounds through it.  It is a surprisingly accurate rifle that simply shouldn't shoot as well as it does.
My last 200 round batch of ammo that I loaded consisted of 120 gr. Sierra GameKing HPBT's over 35 grains of W-W 760.  When I went to the range, I started shooting at 0700 on a heavily overcast morning threatening "wintery mix" weather.  The first shot had the scope filled with fiery orange -the muzzle flash was that intense.  That told me that 760 might have worked okay for the company whose data I was using, but was perhaps too slow for my stubby 20" barrel.  I didn't expect much in the way of accuracy, but the first group I shot measured .625"  After then rounds down the barrel, the third group measured .418" !  I quit bench resting it after that, and went on to "position shooting" on my 5" metal gong target at 125 yards.  The first shot from standing center-punched the plate, poking a hole right through it.  I reckoned then that those 120 gr. Sierra GameKing HPBT's were much stouter than I had previously given them credit for being.  I also reckoned I ought not poke more holes in my "dinger" so went back to punching paper. 
I've been so taken with the little .250 that I haven't paid the No.1 in .30-'06 much attention.  That situation will change, though.  I've got 500 .30-'06 rounds ready to go...
JP

[alan in ga]

only a few know what enjoyment owning, shooting, and hunting with a .250 is like. I should not have sold the Ruger 77RL in .250 I bought in 1983 for $325 otd. I reamed it to Ack Improved and as you did, mounted a Leupold 2x-7x VxII on it, perfect scope.
Sold it but have been making up for it since, now have a Ruger 77R Liberty, another 77R without the Liberty - both in .250 Savage for my sons, and a Ruger Mark II that I fit a Shilen to and left at 24" in Ackley Improved. Either the origional round OR the Ackley Improved, it doesn't matter, the enjoyment is...well.....you'd have to own one to know.