Author Topic: 17 Rem or 221 Fireball (Read 1140 times)

redawg · « **on:** January 31, 2004, 09:04:00 AM »

I plan on using it as a calling gun for coyotes, bobcats and fox at 200yds or less. Looking for advice from someone who has had experience with either caliber or both. Mainly want something that will be fur friendly. Thanks!

varmit_master · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2004, 08:38:10 PM »

Hi i would go with the 221 i have hunted with a friend that use a Rem 700 17 and he shot a dog in the shoulder and it almost got away DONT GET ME WRONG i would love to have a .17 for fox or cats and on the .17 the wind you have to watch it but before i got a 221 i would go ahead and get a 223 rifle ammo is alot cheaper and brass is so cheap VM

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2004, 05:35:44 AM »

The 221 is very good in a pistol. I like the heavier bullets and better bullet selection for the 221. If the animals were smaller I'd prefer the .17.

Catfish · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2004, 12:46:53 PM »

The .17 Rem. shoots alot flatter and a bad hit with a .458 won`t kill a cat. I`ve shot alot of game with a .17 Rem. and if you put it in their chest they will drop like a wet rag. My first kill was a big dog ( about 110 lbs.) The first shot at 180 yrds. hit him in the hind end. Made him wabbly but didn`t knock him down. The second shot went into the chest and he fell like a wet rag, they just go straight down. I`ve got a .17 AH with which I push a 19 grn. bullet at 3,600 fps. I use this gun on groundhogs in the summer and it shoot plus or minus 2 1/2 in. out to just over 290 yrds. With my .17 Rem I`m pushing a 25 grn. bullet to over 4,000 fps. It`s good to past 300 yrds., no problem. As for all the crap you hear about them drifting in the wind so bad, forget it. A .25 grain bullet in .17 cal. will drift about the same as a .22 cal. bullet with the same BC. at the same velosity, meaning you bellet be shooting a .22-250 or a .220 Swift to get close on drift.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2004, 11:53:20 PM »

Redawg, not trying to tell you what to do but I would choose a 223 over a 221. I have a 221 in a contender, it is an excellent little crow pistol out to 200 yards away, I have taken coyote with it, I, ve taken several with a 223 and a 17, none of them knew the difference. Point is all will do a satisfactory job, the 223 is cheaper to get guns and ammunition for. You can usually buy bulk bullets cheaper than you can reload them for in the 223.
As for the .17 they have thier time and place, I would part with many of my rifles before the 17s. I have too hit a shoulder with a 17 and the coyote ran off. I have also done this with a 22/250. I'm not trying to make the gentleman above look bad, what he said is true. Trying to defend a puny caliber for it's lack of power would be kind of silly. That's the whole point, the 17 will kill any coyote with a good shot, just like any other bullet. Where it shines is minimal pelt damage.
I believe a 223 would be of more use to you, besides you can always pick up a 221 or 17 later. Better yet get a contender carbine in 223 and put a 3-9X on top of it, later on get a 10 inch 221 and pistol grip and another carbine barrel in 17.

Tracker · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2004, 09:18:08 AM »

I bought a Rem Model 7 in .17 Rem around 6 years ago and it is by far the best purchse I have ever made. It defies reason in how effectively it can kill a coyote. A shot behind the shoulder or straight on chest shot almost always results in a straight down kill. I lived in CA most of the time and usually shot around 50-60 dogs a year. I am not basing my results on just one or two dogs. There are many good guns out there but for a call gun where most shots are well under 100 yards you can not find one any better especially if you value the pelt. I have taken many bobcats and fox also. I use 30 grain bergers but 25 grain hornady are also great bullets. Its a neet caliber. When I justed wanted dead dogs during club competition hunts I went with the 243 to be sure. But for any other time it was the .17 rem.

Catfish · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2004, 09:19:29 AM »

Bugflipper,
There is merit to what you say and if your not going to hide hunt the bigger the better. I Nov. of last year however I shot a coyote with my .257 imp. An 87 grn. varmint bullet at 3500 fps. I hit it in the frount shoulder and the bullet exited about 3 in. behind the diaphragm on the other side. I quickly turned a $ 10 coyote into a $5 coyote. The shot was about 135 yrds. and with all the damage I did to it I still had to head shot it to kill it. I really think the the .17 Rem. would have killed that coyote with the same shot placement because it would have stayed in meaning 100% of it`s energy would have been in the coyote where the .257 bullet took alot out the other side. This debate has been going on for years and will be going on for years to come.
If your hide hunting the .17 Rem. is unbeatable. If your not a hide hunter the .223 will kill them just as dead and everything you said about the cost difference is true and there for would be a better choice for most people, and avaeyone just starting to pick-up afew guns.

Tracker · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2004, 09:21:37 AM »

I bought a Rem Model 7 in .17 Rem around 6 years ago and it is by far the best purchse I have ever made. It defies reason in how effectively it can kill a coyote. A shot behind the shoulder or straight on chest shot almost always results in a straight down kill. I lived in CA most of the time and usually shot around 50-60 dogs a year. I am not basing my results on just one or two dogs. There are many good guns out there but for a call gun where most shots are well under 100 yards you can not find one any better especially if you value the pelt. I have taken many bobcats and fox also. I use 30 grain bergers but 25 grain hornady are also great bullets. Its a neet caliber. When I justed wanted dead dogs during club competition hunts I went with the 243 to be sure. But for any other time it was the .17 rem.

Catfish · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2004, 09:21:52 AM »

Bugflipper,
There is merit to what you say and if your not going to hide hunt the bigger the better. I Nov. of last year however I shot a coyote with my .257 imp. An 87 grn. varmint bullet at 3500 fps. I hit it in the frount shoulder and the bullet exited about 3 in. behind the diaphragm on the other side. I quickly turned a $ 10 coyote into a $5 coyote. The shot was about 135 yrds. and with all the damage I did to it I still had to head shot it to kill it. I really think the the .17 Rem. would have killed that coyote with the same shot placement because it would have stayed in meaning 100% of it`s energy would have been in the coyote where the .257 bullet took alot out the other side. This debate has been going on for years and will be going on for years to come.
If your hide hunting the .17 Rem. is unbeatable. If your not a hide hunter the .223 will kill them just as dead and everything you said about the cost difference is true and there for would be a better choice for most people, and avaeyone just starting to pick-up afew guns.

Tracker · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2004, 09:26:03 AM »

I bought a Rem Model 7 in .17 Rem around 6 years ago and it is by far the best purchse I have ever made. It defies reason in how effectively it can kill a coyote. A shot behind the shoulder or straight on chest shot almost always results in a straight down kill. I lived in CA most of the time and usually shot around 50-60 dogs a year. I am not basing my results on just one or two dogs. There are many good guns out there but for a call gun where most shots are well under 100 yards you can not find one any better especially if you value the pelt. I have taken many bobcats and fox also. I use 30 grain bergers but 25 grain hornady are also great bullets. Its a neet caliber. When I justed wanted dead dogs during club competition hunts ( alot of night hunting) I went with the 243 to be sure. But for any other time it is the .17 rem.

Tracker · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2004, 09:32:14 AM »

Catfish

I would love to see a PIC of that 110 pound coyote. I have never seen one that big. 35 pounds is a big dog out west.

redawg · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2004, 12:38:04 PM »

Thanks for the responses! I probably should've said that I do handload and I've already got a 22-250, 243 and 25-06 as far as guns used for varmints go. I also have a 17 HMR, but don't see it as a good choice for coyotes.

Always had an interest in 17 calibers. I noticed CZ is now chambering both rounds I asked about, which is the reason I asked about them. Anybody have any experience with the CZ's?

Catfish, that 17 AH sounds pretty cool. What type of rifle is it? Who made the barrel? One of the guys I work with has been talking about having one made. 22 K-Hornet necked down to 17cal, is that right? Who made your dies? Approx. how many firings do you get per casing? I've heard the Hornet case is pretty thin. Ever use it on coyotes or is it too light in your opinion? Sorry to be so nosy, just sounds like a fun cartridge.

If/when I ever find a Model 7 in 17 Rem I'll bring it home with me, provided my budget will allow it.

Thanks again to all that responded!

Tracker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2004, 02:26:55 PM »

I looked for the model 7 for two years without success. Then I started posting on as many nboards as I could dind on the internet. Week after I did that I got a response. I now have one that will never leave the safe. I have a buddy that oicked up a rem 788 in 223 and rebarrled it. A gret little gun and awsome shooter. You can sometimes find them for around 250 and get it rebarrled reasonably. I have access to a .17 reamer if you ever need one. Good luck.