fail to function

[Mike in Virginia]

I love the 1911.  But I've never had one that didn't fail to function at one time or another.  Out of the box, I've come to expect a failure.  I had ONE, a Smith and Wesson target model, that never failed. Other than that, I've never owned one (and I've owned a lot of 'em) that didn't fail sooner or later. 
 
I recently got the hots for a Springfield EMP in 9mm, but after looking at all the reviews on Youtube and elsewhere, they fail. 
 
I've owned Colts, Springfields, and Kimbers, but other than that one S&W, they all failed out of the box.  I'm no gunsmith, and I know nothing of tuning and springs and limp wristing.  I just want my pistol to work all the time, no matter what, and from my experience, the 1911 ain't it. 
 
This is the wrong place to bad mouth a 1911, I know, but facts are facts.  I can't believe I'm the only person in America who has experienced the unreliabilty of the production 1911.  I suppose if one wanted a custom gun built that didn't jam, he could pay for it and get it.  I'm not one of those.  I want my gun to work perfectly out of the box at a non-custom price. 
 
I hate plastic guns and I hate Glocks, but at 64 years of age and after a 32 year career as a cop, I am convinced that 1911s are classic and gorgeous, but they do not work.  They fail.  I've read here and elsewhere of all the reasons they might fail, and how the defects can be corrected.  But who wants to mess with all that?  Why not buy a gun that works from the get go.  Why must one be a gun mechanic to have a reliable sidearm? 
 
Some autos do not jam.  The .45acp is a wonderful round, but it comes in other configurations that are not 1911.  The old G.I. 45's didn't jam often, but they were lose fitting and inaccurate.  In my useless opinion, the 1911 and the .45acp are outdated by many years.  There are many who will disagree.  It's clear from all gun publications that the 1911 style is still very much alive, but anyone who carries one has either payed through the nose to get it to work, or mistakenly believes it will always work without alteration or the infamous "breaking in." 
 
My last one, a Kimber, jammed with all 230 grain ammo.  No matter what brand magazine I used, the dern thing would only function with the shorter 185 grain ammo, and then would still jam once out of every 4 or 5 clips.  Not acceptable at all.
 
It is difficult for me to comprehend why anyone would feel the need to fire thousands of rounds out of a 1911 before they considered it reliable.  There are so very many other carry guns available that will not fail out of the box. 
 
I'm all done with the 1911.  Regardless of the classic lines, the balance, the pointability, the slim profile, I am done, done, done.  I need a gun that works all the time from the very start without spending more than $1000 for one that will "probably" work. 
 
Personally, I like Ruger handguns, and there new 1911 has had good reviews, but I won't risk spending $700 on one and hope it will function all the time.  When will the shooting public come to realize that a 1911 is the most prone to failure of any other platform?  A special unit of the FBI uses a Springfield acp, and the Tacoma, Washington PD issues 1911's, but I know of no other agency that wants 'em. Maybe there are a few more, I don't know.  Most want something that works all the time, and a 1911 ain't it.  I've owned and used them since I was a kid, and one thing I have learned:  a 1911 platform other than the old G.I. models, WILL fail to function sooner than later.
 
If the military wanted to get rid of the anemic 9mm hardball for a .45acp, I doubt they would opt for a 1911.  They would go with a Sig or some other proven design.  They will NEVER go back to the 1911.   
 
Okay, go ahead and blast my opinion, but think about all the failure to fire situations you have suffered with 1911's.
 
I submit this respectfully, as I know lots of people on this forum know far more than I do about firearms.   

[Savage]

Not much to say. I'm sure you have presented an accurate and truthful accounting of your experiences. I have to say my experiences have been quite different with the 1911 platform. I have carried them as a duty weapon, and use them frequently for carry and in action pistol matches. I also utilize Glocks and CZs in the same capacity. I like um all!
Savage

[anachronism]

Your experiences don't match my experiences either. If you're having all these issues with one gun design, obviously you and the design aren't made for each other, and you should part ways. Outside of some recoil spring tuning to suit my ammo choices, I've found my 1911s to be the most trustworthy of all, and feel your conclusion that (all) 1911s don't work to be flawed, mainly because one person is too small of a data base to allow such conclusions. I do hope you find something that suits you.

[timothy]

I'm on my 4th 1911 and every one of them has jammed on me at some point. I too find it amusing that as popular as it is nobody will admit its probably the most malfunction prone design on todays market. It proves style points and romance win over practicality even when life is on the line. Its a great target and field gun however and by handloading and a set of calipers you can get into the nitty gritty and find out exactly what your gun likes. I rarely have a malfunction using handloads.

[1911crazy]

I feel your pain, been there and done that too. Your not alone I purchased two new colt 1911's back in the 70's and 80's that failed to cycle right out of the box.  My third FTF 1911 was a new springfield armory series 90 "1990".  I traded off both colts for ruger redhawks.  But i kept the 90's SA because it was so dam purdy in black park.  I was about to give up on owning a fully functionable, reliabile and dependable 1911 when i spotted a used chinese norinco 1911a1 for $299.  The norc 1911 actually showed me what all the hype was about.  The chinese manufactured 1911 functioned non stop flawlessly.  Now i figured if were going to own and shoot 1911's we better learn how to fix them and tune/tweek them when there sick.  I purchased the jerry k  1911 shop manual and dvd,  the 4 wilson combat dvd's and the AGI two dvd set to learn everything i can about working on them.  I went to work on my norinco that had a loose barrel bushing in the slide.  I installed a new $59 surplus barrel from sportsmans guide along with a full length guide rod kit on sale for  $9.   I purchased a IAI national match barrel bushing and full wrap around rubber grips from CDNN investments for $20.  I went to work fitting the barrel in the slide with the national match barrel bushing.  First i buff'd the slide bore till the nm bushing fit with only a 1/4 turn with the bushing wrench till it locked inplace snug only not too tight.  Then i fitted trhe barrel to the slide/bushing.  In full battery with 100% lock up with no barrel spring and lowered to load a round with no barrel spring also.  With out addressing the tad loose frame rail to slide fit she shoots 1 cloverleaf per 8rd mag now at 25yds.  After seeing and doing all the improvements on the norc with success i remembered the 90's SA sitting in the safe growing roots by now.  With some print outs from the other 1911 sight i started to inspect why it was stove piping 1rd per mag.  I found out the extractor lost its spring tention.  I ordered all the tools to tune the extractor from brownells.  I tuned the extractor properly and installed it.  The extractor holds the empty case in the slide now in any position.  At the range my brand new 1990  SA functioned flawlessly now.  I fixed it.
Now after fixing the extractor i asked myself why did this brand new 1911 malfunction.  I figured out that i caused the extractor to loose its tention by loading a round in the chamber first by hand without feeding it from the mag.  I let the slide close on the chambered round causing the extractor to loose its spring tention.  It was my fault.  I didn't know it had to load from the mag 100% of the time.
I feel like the maytag repair man now with my 4 1911's all running awesome now.  I'm actually bored and i can't complain or rag about having new 1911's that don't function anymore.
My two new 1911's that functioned and cycled right out of the box are the Auto Ordnance Army WW2 copy 1911a1 "2005" and the springfield armory  G.I. Mil-Spec "2005".    Its a great feeling to blow thru mag after mag with no FTF's or jams of any kind now.  The 1911 is an awesome pistol. We ran over 500rds thru the AO so far with no jams/ftf's.  I just ran a few mags thru the 2005 SA so far.  On a sad note it took a chinese norinco 1911 to show me how awesome the 1911's really are.
Now with all my CZ pistols i have never had a hicup or jam of any sort they all run flawless forever so far.
I say hang in there and get them up and running there awesome pistols.    CZY
BTW;  I only shoot the wolf 45acp ball ammo in all my 1911's. I believe the 1911 should eat any 45acp ball ammo thats what there made for.  The problem is when we try to shoot hollow points is when the problems start.

[williamlayton]

I really can't comment because i have never had one stock that stayed stock.
I have never had a glitch with one that was "TUNED".
I did have a jamb with a Sig 239 but that is another story and was not exactly a gun jamb but a casing jamb.
Blessings

[1911crazy]

I went to the 1911 forum and looked at the extractor pics for tuning the extractor.  They actually flare out the bottom side so it picks up the new round much easier like a funnel.

[Mike in Virginia]

1911crazy, you might havae something there.  I suppose the 1911 was originally designed for hardball and it worked as desgined for the military.  They didn't do things with 1911's like we do now.  It was a trench gun, maybe, and protected fighters who were in real close hand-to-hand fighting without a rifle, and neither accuracy nor hollowpoints were needed or even heard of yet. 
And soldiers brought them home.  And they caught on like a house on fire and have never slowed in popularity.  Still, the quest goes on for an out-of-the-box shooter; a gun that does not have to be tweaked.  I think, like you, that Norinco was one of those. 
The market still doesn't have one that will feed hollowpoints that I can afford.  It bothers me to buy something new and then have to fix it. 
And here's another problem.  (Lordy, I'm getting in trouble here.)  The ballistics of the acp is the same as they were a hundred years ago, unless you go to a +P, and even then you only gain about 100fps.  Have you ever stood behind an acp shooter when the sun was just right and could actually see the big bullets loping along toward the target?  That ain't all due to bullet size.  You can't see my 300 grain hardcast 45LC headed for the target.  The point is, they are slow, slow, slow.  Penetration is minimal due to that lack of speed.  I'm convinced of that via my many tests into lots of stuff that, admittedly, was not living flesh.  I've shot into wet phone books, planks, milk jugs full of loose dirt, milk jugs full of dirt soaked with water, stacks of news papers, sand bags, and a cast iron skillet.  No handgun caliber I used against the skillet made it ring and swing like the acp, but none of the material that could be penetrated showed less than the acp.  It just stops, which is not neccesarily a bad thing, but it's a fact.  IMO opinion, it stops too soon, unless it's a hardball round, and I think we can do a lot better than .45 hardball considering how far we've come in bullet design. 
One more inherent defect of the .45acp and I'll shut up.  A carry gun is not usually the original 5" model.   It is usually a shorter barrel and shorter stack magazine.  That puts into even less velocity measures, and more potential for fail to function. 
With all that said, remember I'm the guy who favors a single action revolver for concealed carry!  So don't take anything I say seriously.  Just sharing my views on the 1911.  Stay safe. 
 
 
 

[Pot-Bellied Stallion]

The only 1911 that I'm really familiar with is the Para-Ordnance P14-45, and I ran literally thousands of rounds through it with no malfunction at all.  I just traded for an Argentine 1911 that has had very little use, so I'll shoot it as much as I possibly can in the near future.  I also picked up a Ruger P-345 and so far it has performed flawlessly out of the box using several brands of ammo and some handloads.

[Mikey]

Here is what I know about the 1911A1 and mil-spec ball that travels at about 850-975'/sec from a 5" military pistol - it will shoot right the hay on through you and killya at 25 yds or better and will knock you off your feet and killya out to 50 yds or better.  I have not yet handled a mil-spec 1911A1 (and some were terribly worn) using ball ammo that has malfunctioned on me; in fact, not one of the 45 autos (1911A1s) that I have owned have malfunctioned with ball ammo. 
 
I have never known the 45 to be a 'hard target' caliber, whether against railroad posts, car bodies, sand filled containers or anything like that. It was never designed for that; it was designed to replace the 45 revolver with a load effective enough to de-horse a rider or falter a mount (horse) out to 50 yds.  The 9mm cannot do that.  The 9s are better at penetrating light cover or light armor only because they are narrower, usually with a more pointed than rounded projectile, and move faster than the 45.  But that's it.  As for hollowpoints and the like - the 45 never needed those, it works just fine all by itself or at least it worked just fine for me. 
 
I handload to mil-spec with the same weight bullet:  230 gn or a 238 gn cast swc.  None malfunction in my Gov't Model.  But I have encountered a lot of guys at the ranges with new 45s and either reloads or junk ammo that wind up having problems.  I encountered one fellow with a new 4" Kimber that had a tough time cycling Wolf  steel case ammo and would stove-pipe regularly.  We switched to my Sellier and Bellot 230 gn ball that the factory chronographs to 870'/sec and that Kimber ran smoothly.
 
Mike in Virginia:  sounds like you have not had a good time with your 1911s although you did say that 'a 1911 platform other than the old G.I. models, WILL fail to function sooner than later', that is a good clarification and most likely the main reason I favor them (the GI Model) so much.
 
Pot-Bellied Stallion:  before you start shooting that Argentine pistol, get a new set of springs for it from Wolff Springs in Ardmore, PA.  I would opt for a 18 lb recoil spring and a 22 lb hammer spring.  If you are concerned about barrel life even with a little used pistol, you can find mil-spec replacements (the 1927 Argentine is a Colt 1911A1 pattern that can use milsurp parts) for around $50.  HTH.

[1911crazy]

When i do take a 1911 out for a walk and some fresh air i ccw only the 5'' barreled ones thats all i own anyway.  I did have a commander once.  I been a wheel gun guy for most of my ccw life till now.  I carried the 44mags shoulder holstered most of the time.  But after finally getting my 1911's to function flawlessly now i really like the 1911 and the other spanish  &  CZ auto's too. I would walk into hell with my 1911 just as i would with any revolver.  I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of my tricked out norc 1911 nor any other 1911.   The 45acp bullet maybe slow but its a sledge hammer when it hits.
I do notice when a manufacturer first starts out there quality is awesome, but as the manufacturing numbers increase in production the quality tends to suffer along the way.  The first time a manufacturer cuts corners they seem to hit the quality control people first. Afterall there the non producers.  This is when we get the ones that don't function right out of the box.  Its called it needs "break in time" to cover poor fitting and machining not being up to par.  Its not the design of the 1911 its a great pistol.  Its the nuckle heads who try to manufacture it faster by cutting corners to get the numbers out there. The demand and supply seems to affect there quality and rush to get the production numbers out there.   I can't judge them all by the non functioning ones i had in the beginning.  I'm glad i hung in there long enough to get a good operating 1911 to really see how awesome they really are.   Like Mikey here says its either the mag or the extractor. I have also found out the 1911's can be 100% reliable and dependable too.
My new auto ordnance army ww2 copy 1911a1 has been flawless for over 500rds now, thats 250rds per outing with the 3 or 4 of us shooting it.  My tricked out norinco isn't that far behind and its flawless in functioning so far too.  My two SA 1911's have just been tested for functioning only and with a few mags thru them they seem to be ok too.  One is right out of the box new shot for the first time, the other was jamming one rd per mag till i tuned the extractor by reworking it to the print / specs.   She now is cycling flawlessly too.  If a 1911 isn't cycling the way it should it won't take much to get it right.  I don't accept any pistol not being 100% reliable for ccw carry..

[SHOOTALL]

My first was a 9mm ser 70 . It was made for ball and worked with it, Second was a ser 80 45 that also was for ball ammo it also worked well. Most fail to realize that 1911's were set up for ball ammo they were from the start. Just because ammo comes out with gaping holes in the nose dosen't change the 1911 govt model. I had a parts gun that also would feed ball. A Kimber that will feed anything including sized cases ( a little test I try) . A 10 mm Colt that will feed anything and a Colt out the custom shop that feeds anything. Wish I still had most of them but I don't. When buying a 1911 ask what it is set up to shoot. Then if it won't send it back and let the factory make it work. I have also had some that would not even feed ball but they had mechanical problems. Mike try ball to see what happens . Hey a 45 hole is still a big juice vent .

[fatercat]

seems like the army tested the 1911 right before they started using it. i think 5000 Rd's without a failure.  so, what are ya'll doing wrong?

[wyohandi]

my experience is that most auto pistol failures are magazine problems.
I have one put together with parts from SARCO that will feed anything including empties with
a decent magazine put one of those cheap mags in it, it has issues  Same thing with other pistols.
As far as blaming the platform UMMM just about every auto pistol works the exact same way,
not a whole lot of "improvements" out there have revolutionized the basic design.

[anachronism]

Weak springs, especially magazine springs, are responsible for much of the 1911s issues. I spend a lot of money making sure my magazines are 100%, and that investment pays me back with interest.

[fatercat]

no not 5 thousand--it was 6000 rounds. sorry about that.

[SHOOTALL]

OK lets get to it sorry if it ticks some off. At the range there are alot of guys who limp wrist 1911. The gun functions with a strong grasp and locked arm. If the wrist and arm work as cusion the gun will often fail. The limp wrist guy blames the gun. I have and have seen others pick the same gun up and it runs like a sewing machine. Most often the gun is handed back with "it ain't the gun" .

[wyohandi]

my daughter started shooting "her" 1911 at age 14 under 100 lbs
she has put alot of rounds downrange she has never had a failure of any type so that tells me it doesn't
take gorilla arm/wrist strength to make one function. I see alot of people who think a heavy recoil spring
is a must have to "save" wear and tear on the gun, then shoot 10 different types of ammo and get failures.
DUHH guess what most of the store bought stuff doesn't need a 22# recoil spring like Bob the reloaders
fire breathin specials do.  Just like your 22 won't cycle some lower power rds reliably.
A 1911 with the right spring and a decent mag will run with any gun made, and I guess if field stripping
your gun and changing a $7 spring (which every manufacturer recommends every so many rds) is too much
gunsmithing for ya the 1911 isn't for you.