DEMOCRATS...

[BUGEYE]

yeah buddy i got all that in high school . that is theory. in the real world it is more about rich getting richer on the backs of those that don't have "anything but their labor" to sell. you sound pretty elitist white collar to me. chances are the blue collar people are the ones with the most to lose

I'm sure you turned down raises and benefits.
I know people from lawn people to CEOs and every one of them makes as much money as they can.
those that only have their labor to sell, didn't take advantage of all the opportunities put before us.
the reason I'm not a millionare is my fault.  either I'm not smart enough or too lazy.
but I do not expect a go-getter to share his wealth unless I work for him or sell him something.
jealousy is the problem of democrats and OSWers.

[mcwoodduck]

yeah buddy i got all that in high school . that is theory. in the real world it is more about rich getting richer on the backs of those that don't have "anything but their labor" to sell. you sound pretty elitist white collar to me. chances are the blue collar people are the ones with the most to lose

You're kind of right.
there are many who have worked and saved their way up to the top.
There was a kid that started out as a bag boy in a Va grocery chain and took half of his pay and invested in stock in the store every month.  In 40 years he owned the chain.  Multi millionaire.
The other day I was at a house in San Francisco, they had some of my equipment heating the house.  In the house were a butler, a maid, a chef, and a house manager all as staff for the house.  If you were to steal everything from those people, you would hurt the families of the the butler, the maid, the chef and the house manager.  Oh there was a dog walker too.
Not to mention all the workers that work on the house like my customer and me.  I understand that we do not have a class system in people born with nothing can be millionaires and billionaires.  they do not do it on the backs of the poor but make it possibe for the poor to become middle class or wealthy.
If you work hard and can make the owner $ with thier labor then they will promote them and value them. What the poor do with their $ in spending it may be where you have the idea the rich are stealing it.  If you are going to risk your money and you can get 10% in the stock market you are going to want more for a riskier venture not to mention the over head nad hte tax burden of the company.

[mdwest]

Atlas Shrugged should be required reading for everyone that thinks OWS is a good thing...
 
pretty decent story about what can happen when the "1%" finally gets angry enough to do something...

[351 power]

hey bugeye i was just quoting mcwoodduck about the "nothing but labor" to sell. don't think i would turn down a raise. not trying to start grief just pointing out that the economy is not so simple. yes you do deserve a share of the wealth from the go-getter if you labor for him. but you realize that if the govt bails him out YOU paid for that. or tax cuts to keep him from leaving your country comes out of your pocket. how is corporate welfare any better than food stamps. that go-getter has many ways to gather wealth you have no access to. the tea party and the occupiers both see the faults in the system. biggest problem between them is the generational gap in ethics/morals. and the sad part is we raised that generation. they are our kids and grandkids.

[mcwoodduck]

351,
Deserve? 
Really?
If I hire you to work for me, I take the risks to produce the product or service and and paying you before we make the first $ and you deserve to share in the profits I make?
You deserve what wage we agree to.  If you are a valuable employee then I will pay you more to keep you, /keep you happy.
If you are a lazy sack of dirt and do less than the bare minimum I am going to get some one to replace you that wants to work and wants to make me money so I can pay them more. 
 

[351 power]

wouldn't have it any other way. but realize this. those same guys you are helping to make a profit are actively selling you down the river when they invest money that ends up outside the country. buy from suppliers who undercut your wages. hide their profits in offshore banks. try to see the other side of the street. the system loves to hold up the "poor guy makes his way,pulling himself by the bootstraps" stories. "the dream" stories are there i don't deny it. but those stories are not the way the 1% got there. probably .001% did it that way. the rest had good education, good family, and good finances to create their opportunities. yes i am cynical. just as an example, how many well off families sent their kids to war? and if they did, were they officers?

[mdwest]

just as an example, how many well off families sent their kids to war? and if they did, were they officers?

We have had an all volunteer force for over 35 years... Every man and woman that has served since Vietnam, whether they were enlisted or commissioned made a personal choice to do so. No one has been sent "to war" by their families whether rich or poor..

Did you serve? If so, in what capacity and what time period? Post Vietnam can you name one person that was sent to war that didn't raise their right hand voluntarily and swear an oath to defend their country against all enemies foreign and domestic?

I served because I MADE THE CHOICE to do so. No one, to include my family, sent me (or anyone else in the past couple of generations) anywhere..

[bigMikeA]

how many well off families sent their kids to war? and if they did, were they officers?

My son served in Iraq, more than once.  An officer by the way;  Army Captain.  And I did  not SEND him.  He made a personal choice to do so;  more than once.  And his entire family could not be any prouder.

I could say a lot more but I won't.......

[billy_56081]

how many well off families sent their kids to war? and if they did, were they officers?

My son served in Iraq, more than once.  An officer by the way;  Army Captain.  And I did  not SEND him.  He made a personal choice to do so;  more than once.  And his entire family could not be any prouder.

I could say a lot more but I won't.......

Exactly! My daughter is serving in Kuwait as we speak. I did not send her there either. SHE chose to enlist in the MN national guaurd at 17. Yes I signed the consent, but no self respecting red blooded American would not. She will be home on leave this friday. I love my baby girl and am so damn proud of her.

[bigMikeA]

Please give her a big hug Billy, enjoy her leave, and thank her for her service from the bigMikeA family....

[billy_56081]

Will do. She has done a lot of things that makes dad proud. She also plays taps at the funerals of veterans for the VFW and Legion. She played taps for memorial days also, it brought tears to hers gruff tough old dads eyes. And that is not easy to do.

[351 power]

sorry to allow my cynicism to reach too far. i was mistaken to bring the sacrifice of the servicemen and women into this argument. i truly apoligise

[mcwoodduck]

wouldn't have it any other way. but realize this. those same guys you are helping to make a profit are actively selling you down the river when they invest money that ends up outside the country. buy from suppliers who undercut your wages. hide their profits in offshore banks. try to see the other side of the street. the system loves to hold up the "poor guy makes his way,pulling himself by the bootstraps" stories. "the dream" stories are there i don't deny it. but those stories are not the way the 1% got there. probably .001% did it that way. the rest had good education, good family, and good finances to create their opportunities. yes i am cynical. just as an example, how many well off families sent their kids to war? and if they did, were they officers?

OK so by your logic the mechanic that fixes your truck deserves a percentage of the next raise you get for your hard work? 
I grew up in a middle class family, but wiht the passing of my mother was able to go to a really good school.  The long school hours worked for my father's schedule.  Of the super rich that were at the school very few were of family money.  Most were middle class that worked thier ass off.  Of the rich that sent their kids there, some got a leg up.  Some had many oppertunities but all had to seize those oppertunities and work hard to keep them.
Of my friends, a few are wealthy, some are doing well, some are middle class, one from one of the wealthier families is a lobster fisherman in Maine and struggles. and finally of one of the fathers that started out his life living above a grocery store in Ga and worked his way up to the SVP of a Metals Company his two sons given the same opperunites ended up very differently.  The younger son is doing very well and the older son, my friend killed himself in dispear.  If you tell your self the game is rigged, that you will not be given the same oppertuinity, the education then nothing is ever your fault.  You can be a failure and want ot feed off the work of others.  If you want the education there are was to get it, there are ways to work for it, there are ways to seize opperunities.
I am doing OK I live across the country from where I grew up, but I came here to seize an oppertunity I had, and Through work I have done OK and better than some of my more privledged friends.  I have also seen some the the super rich loose everythng and others pitch in to help their kids stay in the schools.
 

[351 power]

i don't doubt any of your information. truth is thru saving and sacrifice my wife and i paid off our house in 11 yrs and are now paying for both our kids' college ed. out of pocket. but the only point worth making is that some of the opportunities we are accustomed to are disappearing because business isn't done the same way now

[powderman]

I don't think that me getting out my precision rifle and boring holes into peoples heads is the right answer.  Now what I do think is the right answer is letting the owners of the busines's effected go into the "OCCUPY" camp and have a turn at smashing up their belongings, tearing down their tents, busting up their cars, destroying their kitchen... ect.. 
 
An eye for an eye in this instance seems like proper medicine.

 
SSS. I definitely agree with that Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[mcwoodduck]

i don't doubt any of your information. truth is thru saving and sacrifice my wife and i paid off our house in 11 yrs and are now paying for both our kids' college ed. out of pocket. but the only point worth making is that some of the opportunities we are accustomed to are disappearing because business isn't done the same way now

I agree.
I look at history and see most of the economic problems are Government caused.  The Nanny state at it's best to keep people down.  The really rich look at the economy as a rising tide raises all boats.  The communists are the ones that think everything is a zero sum gain, that everyone that was born rich will stay that way, and the playing field is stacked in favor of them.  When in reality the government is making it so that the uber rich stay that way as longas they donate large sums to thier campaings.  Look at Microsoft owner Bill Gates, when the Democrats realized he did not donate to tehm the Clinton machine went after him in an anti trust suit.  When he agreed to donate they dropped the suit and a fine was imposed.  If I were Bill Gates as soon as GWB was sworn in I would have been in his ofice and swearing out a complaint for extortion against Janet Reno, Bill Clinton and who ever was incharge of the DNC at the time.
 

[BUGEYE]

mcwoodduck, I had completely forgotten that.  it was jelousy of another persons money.
typical liberal mentality.

[ironglow]

   DEMOCRATS;
     You endorsed it, you encouraged it, you bought it, you own it...
   Does your chest swell with pride when you see scenes like this ?...
 
   CAUTION...OWS LANGUAGE..
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ilq_66LnRaw#!

[crustylicious]

They're Americans, we all own it
But if you want to get devisive check out the tea party
[embed=425,349]http://youtu.be/6ik4f1dRbP8[/embed]

[ironglow]

  Yep;
  For you two liberal Democrats...Let's compare this alleged video of the Tea Party with the actual acts of the occupiers..
  I hear some raised voices..but not raised too high..
 
  How does this video compare with these documented  actions of OWS ?
 
 A) rapes.
 B) Murders.
 C) Arson.
 D) Defecating in streets.
 E) Defecating on police cars.
 F) urinating in streets and public parks.
 G) Vomiting in public areas.
 H) Suicide.
 I) Drug induced deaths
 J) Cutting police with knives.
 K) Drug overdosing.
 L) Spreading noxious diseases.
 M) Smashing windows of private property
 N) Defacing private & public property. (grafitti)
 
   Don't try to say these creeps are endorsed by "all of us"..you should know better.  These rioters were praised and endorsed by Obama. Pelosi, Biden and Reid..just to mention a few.
 
  I and my conservative friends have endorsed the Tea Party..and if this video if (assuming it's not a lie) is in reality true, I can only ask...Is that the worst you have ?
  The Tea Party is ours..the murderers, rapists, arsonists, rapists, drug heads, and other criminals...are yours.

[BUGEYE]

that video was obviously fake.  no decent person would act like that.  it reminds me of the two CBS film about killing polar bears and exploding chevy gas tanks.
a member here acted like that toward me when he found out I was disabled. and that member is certainly not a TPer.
TPers were accused of spitting on a black congressman, but that was found to be dis-info by liberals who are terrified of the TP.

[Singleshotsam]

TM7
 
I think he was making a general comparison as to the sheer amount of violations you see at a OWS protest site compared to a Tea Party Protest site.  There have been several news reports, youtube videos, and news articles depicting the illicit use of druges at OWS encampments.  There are several instances of Occupy Movements becoming violent and destorying private property.  There have been several reports on the "accusations of rape" in the OWS encampment.  And lets not forget OWS Kitchen workers protesting serving homeless people food because they were not contributing to the OWS movement.
 
I've seen one instance of the Tea Party movement being beligerant to a person with a "disability" and that is the video crusty just posted.  I've yet to see Tea Party protesters marching down a public street, destroying windows and buildings, burning cars, using illegal drugs... ect...ect.
 
 

[ironglow]

SSS;
  Exactly what I meant..the offences have been posted here on GBO regularly.  Frankly, I cannot see the tea Party acting like that to a handicapped man.  I would think it either staged, or a very rare occasion.

[mcwoodduck]

There may be some crazies in the Tea party, just like there are some in the OWS.  But you do not have to set up RAPE FREE areas at a tea party event.
And my question is:
Since they are occupying and taking over the area nd declaring them selves in charge of the area.  Since they have rape free zones are they allowing rape in other areas?
There is a huge difference bewteen the HIPPY movent of the late 60's and early 70's and the OWS.
The Hippy movment was about throwing off social conventions, and freedom of the person to do what they want as long as it does not infringe on the person next to them.  The idea that they thought they were too valuable to society and did not want to go off and fight a war over idealology.
The OWS movenment is about social controls and making people think and do what they want.  It is about establishiong a social convention where the iron fist of communism is the social convention.  You become privledged, not my working hard but by showing the party your loyality and how much you are willing to repress your neighbors rights.

[Singleshotsam]

So since I'm a fair, open minded person I got on youtube and typed in Tea Party Protest Violence.  Here is the top 5 results.
 
Left-wing Violence at Peaceful Tea Party Protests - a liberal throws blows with a tea party protester over a political discussion he was losing.
 
Violent Tea Party Protests vs. Peaceful Pittsburgh G-20 Rallies - Glenn Beck defends them - peaceful tea party protesters compared to violent g20 protesters.  Also the comparison is made of how much trash G20 protesters left on the ground vs. how much trash the tea party protesters left (none).
 
Teabagger Violence Mars Tax Day Rally With Sen. Marco Rubio - A leftist protester with a loud megaphone is at first kindly asked to stop blasting his megaphone in the ears of peaceful protesters.  After that a small woman gets in the obnoxious libs face and starts yelling back at him.  It escalates into the liberal man and his wife getting struck by the tiny woman and then calling for the cops.  The cops investigate.  No mention on if the female tea party protester is charged with assault.  (OK TM7 now I've seen 2 instances of Tea Party belligerence and 1 instance of violence started by a TPP.)
 
Tea Party Protesters Assaulted by Pro-Amnesty Socialist Group - Who caused this one is tricky.  It looks like a verbal exchange between a Tea Party Protester and A Pro-Amnesty Socialist erupts into the Socialist breaking his sign over the TPP's head and then members of the socialist group chasing the TPP into the street where the fight continues.
 
Violence Breaks Out At Tea Party Protest - It's hard to make this one out.  Evidently according to the description a union worker assaults a TP member who was protesting an event held by Congressman Debbie Wasserman Shultz.
 
OK so the top 5 videos on youtube about Tea Party Protest Violence are relatively low grade in terms of actual violence and property destruction.
 
 
Let's look at the top 5 results for Occupy Protester Violence...
 
 
Rome 'Occupy' protest turns violent - Lol Al Jazeera is reporting on Occupy Movement violence in Rome.  Setting cars on fire, bashing in windows w/ street signs they tore down, ect...
 
OCCUPY PROTESTS: Clashes in London, violence in Rome - Video about the Occupy movement's Day of Rage in London Rome and NYC.  Bashing in of windows.  Stopping traffic.  ect...
 
Occupy Boston Brutality of Peaceful Protesters - Violent Offenders Ignored - Seems tp be an Occupy video about Police Brutality in Boston.  Nothing seems very brutal and the cop at the start of the video seems very friendly. 
 
Oakland Policeman Throws Flash Grenade Into Crowd Trying To Help Injured Protester - An OWS video about a policeman throwing a flashbang into a crowd rushing around an injured protester.  It is not clear if a tear gas canister injured the protester on the ground according to the video.
 
Occupy Protesters Disavow Oakland Violence?- probably the most telling story about the truth of the Occupy movement.  A manager from a coffee shop who was donating to the Occupy Oakland Movement said she cried because she was part of the 99 % and yet they still smashed up the shop she managed.
 
 
So here are some videos about violence caused by TPP and OWS.  I'm pretty open minded about things but when presented the facts about these two movements it's very clear that TPP are way more civil and considerate than those of the OWS movement.

[billy_56081]

The difference between th Tea party protests and the ows protests is that the TP folks have worked for and earned their possessions while parasitic ows crowd have been given all that they have. It shows in the TP's respect for public and private property. And also the ows's wanton destruction and vandalism of public and private property.

   

[mcwoodduck]

The other day there was a sit in at a BOA around here somewhere (Oakland / Berkley).  If I were the branch bank manager.  Iwould not have had them arrested.  I simply would have sent my employees home and locked the teller area, and hjad the police lock the front door and lock the OWS people in, minus the tent- it would have to have gone or been taken down.
I then would have ordered in food for the police officers and as the OWS people wanted to leave to get food or use a restroom.  They could the police would just not allow them back in.  No muss no fuss protest all you want.
If you try to get behind the teller section you are attempting to rob the bank and will be arrested as such along with everyone else.
Any damage I would have sent the bill to City hall and the DNC.
 

[mcwoodduck]

TM7,
I think fair government and smaller government are one in the same.
When you have a massive burocracy all kinds of things can be hidden, and too much power can be ammassed to change the rules and skew them.
Look at Pelosi and Fienstien who bought stocks in companies and then made rules on the profitability of those companies.  Warren Buffet yelled that wall street should be bailed out by federal dollars and wroter letters to the treasury secratary encouraging them to do so, when he heard back that it would happen Tax me more Buffet made a 50% profit on insider information.
A really big government that employs people to look at rules soon are making rules, unellected rules that effect the economy and either favor one group or another in either out tax code or in rules and regulations.
Like it or not the OWS people want a smaller government if they are true to their cause.  The rules and regs cost money and that drives up the costs of goods making it hard to pay for things and fewer things are produced.
The greens / communists/ American haters all want less consumption, less production, more unemployment and higher prices do that.  If you have a job and are able to get things you want you are typically happy.  If you are unemployed people tend to get mad and look at otehrs that have more and get madder wanting to take from them.  The Democrats want MOB rule want people mad and willing to topple the current system and be able to indroduce a communist form of government.  No free speach, not choice, do what we say or else.

[mcwoodduck]

Lobbists are a form of freedom of speach.
Some are the scum of the earth, the rest are not that high on the food chain. 
But hiring them to work in your best interest is how our system works.
Originally it was to explain how cetain legislation would effect the groups they represent.
I look at the lobbiest now and it is all about the money and what ever you give it is never enough.
Look at Hand gun Control as a lobby group.  They spent more on lobbists in the early 90's that it would have taken to buy and close S&W and Colt at the time.