Opinions of 30 carbine

[bilmac]

What do you all think of the 30 carbine for home defense on a small place in the country? From what I have read I would think that hits on man sized targets at 200-300 yards should be fairly doable, maybe not every shot but this is a fast shooting auto and if one out of three at that range hit I would be OK with that.

 I wouldn't worry too much about lethality at long ranges, but I have heard that at shorter ranges where it counts the 30 carbine isn't that bad. Are there better bullet choices that improve lethality?

Is there a way to put optics in it, I have seen pictures of it with an infrared scope mounted.

How much do they run these days? I hardly ever see them at gun shows.

[Bart Solo]

They go for about $475 and up depending on all kinds of variables.  When I was a kid they were highly prized, but they have been replaced over the years by newer models.  I still think they are cool looking.  They are not as up to the task of home defense as an AR, AK, SKS or even a Mini-14.  They were invented to replace the 1911.  They didn't, but they were widely used during WWII and Korea by the American military, and by our allies in lots of other places since.   
For the same money you can find a better home defense gun, but they carry a lot of style points.

[Lloyd Smale]

when i was a youngster i killed quite a few whitetail with one and with soft point ammo it got the job done pretty well. I wouldnt hesitate to use one for a self defense rifle. Only problem anymore is ammo availability and cost. Back in the day we could buy 50 round boxes of ball of a guy that got them from the local air force base for 50cents a box. About the same price that .22rf went for at the time. For deer hunting wed buy a box of bullets for the 3220 and pull the ball and seat the soft nose over the same powder. It was so cheap to shoot that foolishly we didnt even pick up brass. First carbines i had i got for 50 bucks for a pair of them off my dads buddy who owned a bar. A guy gave them to him to pay up a bar tab.

[Cheesehead]

The 30 carbine round is vastly under rated. Based on Remington factory ammo, it has more muzzle energy than all of the 357 magnum ammo and more than most 44 magnum ammo. I have one, and reload for it and love it.

Cheese

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,
 
   I agree that the .30 carbine with soft points is very underrated.  At 200 yards, it still has about the same foot pounds of energy as the 9mm pistol at the muzzle.
 
   But, I think 200 yards is about the realistic limit.  The poster asked about 300 yard shots, and I just can't see it.   Sure, on a calm day at the range, shooting from a bench, at a nice big black bulls eye at 300 yards, you will achieve some hits.  But, as far as shooting at live targets at 300 yards under stress, I don't believe it will be effective at all.  To the contrary, I think it would be practically worthless.
 
  When you have to assess a rifle by saying that you know it will MISS alot at a certain distance, and that you will make up for this by spraying,  and that you know that even with a hit it will only cause a wound, then I personally believe that the analysis is way way out of bounds and that the rifle is a total failure at that given range..
 
   What it would do at that distance is draw return fire, and an assailant with a .223 or .243 would have no problems whatsoever hitting you in short order, and he wouldn't have to spray rounds to do it.
 
   Cost?   In order to get a totally reliable M-1 carbine in VG+ condition these days, you are talking about a minimum of $800.
 
   A far far better choice would be a Ruger Mini-14 in .223, which you can find used in excellent shape in the $600 range.  It would be VASTLY superior to the M-1 at 300 yards (assuming you buy one that has the pre-fix number showing that it the improved model, i.e., the ones with the two wings that protect the front sight).
 
  Just my thoughts.
 
Mannyrock

[cjclemens]

I don't see why .30 carbine wouldn't be a good self defense round.  If you think of it more as a pistol cartridge being fired from a rifle, it has plenty of power to stop an attacker up close (inside 100 yards).  I don't know how accurate the average M1 carbine is, but my old surplus Universal shoots 2-3" groups at 100 yards.  Beyond 100 yards, it may not be particularly effective, but it can certainly dissuade an advancing attacker.  I guess when I think of self defense, I think of inside the home or very close range - like within 25 or 50 yards at the most.  Given that constraint, the carbine is perfect - accurate, light, fast shooting, and enough power to get the job done.  If we're talking about defending the farmstead in a SHTF type situation, then we're talking about a totally different situation that calls for a different set of tools.

[bilmac]

Taking two or three shots to hit a target at extreme range is not spraying and praying. I walk bullets onto prairie dogs all the time. With low recoiling rifles where you can watch the bullets splash it is pretty effective.

I have to admit though that a Mini 14 is probably a better choice that I forgot about. I had kind of written them off in my mind because I have had two of them and traded them off because I didn't think they were accurate enough for a coyote rifle. Now that I have concerns other than coyotes.

[mcwoodduck]

I have one, Good little rifle.
At times I would use it for a Military shoot. 
100 yards Hits are not a problem.  And my scores were pretty good.
At 200 yards.  It has the accuracy of my AK.  About every third round is a hit on a 20X20 gong.
Cheesehead is correct in that the carbine has a printed energy higher than that of 357 Mag or 44 Mag, but you are comparing rifle speeds ot hand gun speeds.  A 44 out of a short carbine like my Ruger deerfield swings a gong a whole lot more than does the little 30.  Only wish someone made a 20 or 30 round mag for the Deer field. 
 
With that all said, I think of my 30 Carbine more in the class of a pistol carbine,  Like a H&K MP5 / Model 94.   
I always thought an Iver Johnson Enforcer pistol would be cool.  Not sure how practical it would be but cool.
 
In my gun safe the AR, the AK, the Carbine, a Ruger 10/22 standard and the Deerfield are all side by side and are all with in an inch or two of each other.  My AR has a 20" barrel.
If you are looking for hits out ot 200 yards My answer is the AR 15 Hands down.
I took one of my friends kids out to the range and brought all the Movie/ Video game guns.  He was shooting the AR and liked it, moved to the carbines, and on to the Garand and other WWII guns.  He really wanted to shoot the AK.  Heard all kinds of myths about it and thought it was going to be the best rifle ever.  After shooting a mag through it he wanted to go back to the AR.  I asked why.  He loaded a few rounds in each rifle and proceeded to shoot at the 200 Yard gong.  He hit it every time with the AR, one for three with the Carbine and hte AK, and every time with the Garand but hated the recoil.  The Bolts he said were too slow.
If you are looking for a carbine out ot 200 yards, hands down the AR with a 20" barrel and a full stock.  Good solid rifle.
If you want a 100 yard or less rifle the 30 carbine is a great choice.