338 rimmed wikdcats

[WyomingWhitetail]

Hello guys I just found the wild cat section on here I got all giddy. Maybe some people who will understand me. I have a deep desire to own guns in odd, old, or wildcat cartridges. Right now I'm trying to decided on a 338 cal rimmed cartridge of some sort for a future project involving a Mosin Nagant. I've looked at the 338/348 AI which while really cool would be pretty expensive for a college kid to pull off. Then there is the possibility of a 30-40 krag necked up but that would most likely require custom dies. Then there is the possibility of 45-70 necked to 338 using shortened 340 weatherby dies (Jedman on here has this one and I have been talkin to him about it so this one is leading the pack right now) or there would be a very similar one except using 338 win mag dies instead of the 340. Or there is the possibility of 444 or 405 necked down but then we get into the realm of custom dies again. The two possibilities based on the 45-70 are lookin the best right now because of cheap brass and the abilities to use modified stock dies and standard reamers. I would be greatly interested in how these might stack up against the other options or ideals on something else I havent thought of yet. And I would perfer not to mess with the x54r case.

[wookie76]

Don't forget, in the "other" naming convention what you want is an 8.5mm.


http://municion.org/338Lapua/338Mk.htm



The Mosin is a poor choice for a donor with the funding contstraints you've outlined.  Re-boring isn't very popular anymore (in the grand scheme of things outside of this board) and re-barreling a Mosin requires a cutout for the extractor, adding to the labour costs involved.


If you're set on a repeater, a Savage, with it's switch barrel ability, would make a better donor, but that would preclude your desire for a rimmed cartridge.


Here's an oddball with limited factory backing:
http://municion.org/33/338MarlinExpress.htm

[WyomingWhitetail]

i can do the work myself with the help of a gunsmith friend so labor is not really a factor, which is why im thinking of putting hours of work into a 90 dollar donor rifle, plus i like to tinker. i have been doing some looking at the 284win based wildcats and im seriously wondering if one could modify the dies to make slightly shortened rimmed versions out of 45-70. A 6.5-284 rimmed, now that would be cool.

[Slufoot]

Hello WW,
 
You could run 444 Marlin brass into a shortened 338-06 sizing die, you could also use the Ackley Improved version but this would cost more.
You might even be able to use a 338 Federal die backed off and a 444 marlin die to touch up the base of the case.
I've got a 338 JDJ#2 barrel for my Contender and it's a keeper.
Just some more food for thought.
 
GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[WyomingWhitetail]

well im looking at the .444 now. it is a viable option, im not sure which wold have more case capacity as the .444 would make a longer case but it wouldn't be as big around. Also im not sure how long of a case i would want. Im thinking the short fat cases would allow me to seat the bullets out farther and still fit in the mag while haveing the same powder capacity.

[sidewinder319]

The first .338 was the .33 WCF chambered in the fine Winchester 1886 lever gun. The .33 WCF was a 45-70 case necked down to .338.  This was a famous Elk killer for many decades.

[Bigboar]

Hello guys I just found the wild cat section on here I got all giddy. Maybe some people who will understand me. I have a deep desire to own guns in odd, old, or wildcat cartridges. Right now I'm trying to decided on a 338 cal rimmed cartridge of some sort for a future project involving a Mosin Nagant. I've looked at the 338/348 AI which while really cool would be pretty expensive for a college kid to pull off. Then there is the possibility of a 30-40 krag necked up but that would most likely require custom dies. Then there is the possibility of 45-70 necked to 338 using shortened 340 weatherby dies (Jedman on here has this one and I have been talkin to him about it so this one is leading the pack right now) or there would be a very similar one except using 338 win mag dies instead of the 340. Or there is the possibility of 444 or 405 necked down but then we get into the realm of custom dies again. The two possibilities based on the 45-70 are lookin the best right now because of cheap brass and the abilities to use modified stock dies and standard reamers. I would be greatly interested in how these might stack up against the other options or ideals on something else I havent thought of yet. And I would perfer not to mess with the x54r case.

338 GNR is a 405 Winchester necked down.  Loaded ammo and brass are available from Cartridge Performance Engineering, http://www.cartridgeperformance.com/  Good luck with the project.


bigboar

[mcwoodduck]

I too think the Nagant is an odd choice for a 338 doner.  I understand they are cheap and no one cares if you hack one up. The bolt is odd and short,  you need ape arms to keep the rifle to your shoulder and cycle the bolt
How about taking 303 Brit and necking it up and use some of the lighter bullets.
the 185 to 210 grain bullets can be launched to about 23to 2400 FPS\
And a 250 grain to about 2100 FPS is my guess.
Enfield rifles are easy to find and are still in the cheapish range.
If you look at a few of the movies like "Ghost and the Darkness" the old enfields can look good in a sporter.
The sights on a No4 are pretty good.  The No1 has sights on the barrel and would be the easiest to sporterize.
Either have scope mouts for them if you want to go that way.
The ultimate rimmed bolt action would be either an Enfield P14 that was set up for 303 Brit and was the base for many of the first magnum actions.  The back end of the 303 is .530 and the back end of the 375 H&H, the base of all the belted mags is .530
The other is a Siamese mauser.  Many like mine are sporting a 45-70 barrel.  The only thing I can tell you if you are going ot use one, is to make the new CTG over all length the same as the 8X50R or 8X52R.  Feed problems with the big flat bullet.  It may end up being a wild cat based on the 9.3X74 case.

[iiranger]

First you need to find a copy of Cartridges of the World and study it. I suspect there was a .33 on the .30/30 rim which was originally a Ballard target cartridge parent. .32/40 and .38/55 most common I suspect.  The .33 would probably be a rebore of the .32/40 or .28/30???  With the coming of the .30/30 and smokeless I suspect the head was strengthened for at least 40K CUP pressures. As said, WCF make the .33 WCF many years ago and was much respected. Mr. Keith wanted more from the '06 and came up with the .33 OKH (Oneil, Keith and Hopkins). Wanting even more, using the belted case (.300 H&H) the. .334 OKH. The .348 is on the .50/70 case. Little bigger than .45/70. .33 WCF was on the .45/70 case. .38/56 was the .45/70 case tapered to .375. Improved, alla Ackley, it rivals the .375 H&H factory loads which were a  bit light for use in HOT parts of the world.

#2). Find copies of the Ackley 2 volume set. Thousands of cartridges, factory, improved and wiildcat. EABCO.com has been one source. Sometimes on ebay.

.30/40 and .303 Brit is so close. .405 WCF is a straight .303 case slightly longer. Stout head and feed in SMLE and P14's... still available but no longer cheap.

As said, Moisons are not too popular for remodeling. If you do it yourself, o.k... but not the pretty of a Mauser. Siam had the 98 redesigend by Jap engineers I understand to handle a rimmed 8mm. RCBS once sold form dies to make the round from .45/70 cases. Two. 8x50R and 8x52R. The Siam 98 is considered fairly strong and how available??? Haven't looked in decades.

Enjoy the journey. Plan your trip first. P14 was the WW I Brit rifle made in USA. Uncle Sam wanted springfields but the tooling was set up already to many, many were made in '06 and called M17for model of 1917. P14 bolt is right for the belted case too. Epps, Canada made a .303 Canadian Magnum... .300 H&H case blown out to improved and in .303 for the Brit supplies available in canada. .303british.com has lots of info here and address of Epps shop in hands of offspring now I guess. Luck. Happy Holidays. Happy trails.

[Catfish]

Nothing wrong with the Moslin actions for a beater gun. I built a 2 1/2 in. 410 a slug gun which would be a 405 win. with brass casses, but found out that in Ohio you cannot use all brass cases for slug hunting.    There is no reason you could not take the 303 Birt. or the 7.62 x 54 case out to 338. Your ecks will be getting alittle thin, but if you tight neck it you should still be ablt to get reasonable case life. If you don`t want to spend alot of money on form dies you could fill the case about 1/2 full of a fast pistol powder and pack in corn meal on top of and then just fire the cases in your rifle. The mouth of the cases will need trimmed to square them up, but again no big deal.