help, 357 mag trapper load data

[otterbob]

  I am looking for a hot and heavy load for my handi 357 magnum talo trapper.

 
I have been considering the Lyman 358315 204gr. Gas checked with something on the order of  13.5gr of Lil'Gun

 
Does anyone have or have used this bullet ?

 
Again this is only for my handi 357 magnum talo trapper, I was hoping to set OAL to be to long for my revolver, so that I would not chamber them by accident in the revolver.

 
Your thoughts would be appreciated, pro or con.
 
I would entertain other load data for this handi.

 
I am considering pushing the chamber out to “maxi” so that OAL would not allow the hot loads in my revolver. I know that I could then up the heat, but if I could accomplish near the same with increased OAL,  pushing the chamber would not be a necessity.




 

 

 
Otter Bob

[Fred McIntire]

I'm shooting a 185 grain flat nose gas checked cast lead bullet from Beartooth bullets over 16 grains of H110.

I also shoot a 180 grain XTP over 13.7 grains of H110.

As for my .357 Maximum, I shoot the same 185 grain flat nose gas checked cast lead bullet from Beartooth over 20 grains of H110. It's a proven deer hammer.

The Red highlights reflect a correction and/or clarification. I apologize for the typo.

[cowboyup453]

The first thing you need to do is ream to MAX.
Then you dont have to worry about chambering the wrong cartridge.

[Datil]

 I 2nd what cowboyup said ream to maxie.
 DATIL

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

if the 357 Handi's have the long chamber, could one not just trim back the Maxi to just fit? 

would that not preclude chambering in the revolver?    and would require no alterations?

[cwlongshot]

if the 357 Handi's have the long chamber, could one not just trim back the Maxi to just fit? 

would that not preclude chambering in the revolver?    and would require no alterations?

Many have found they can load and fire 360 DW ammo with out issue in std H&R 357 mag chambers.

I do not understand your second comment/question.

Otter Bob,

I have a couple questions before making a suggestion.

To what end? I mean what is your intended purpose.

What "357".

Jon Taffin and Lane Simpson and another writer from shooting times whos name escapes
me just now, has many articles on calibers and has written and published some excellent data. I have over twenty years of these articles on various calibers. Handloader also published data for many many calibers in each issue. I also have these in a binder. One day I will scan then into a searchable document/file.

I can look thru them again and see what I come up with. I need to dig threw them anyhow as I have promised Pete some of the data.

CW

[Fred McIntire]

I just wanted to make sure everyone saw the correction to my original post above.

I'm shooting a 185 grain flat nose gas checked cast lead bullet from Beartooth bullets over 16 grains of H110.

I also shoot a 180 grain XTP over 13.7 grains of H110.

As for my .357 Maximum, I shoot the same 185 grain flat nose gas checked cast lead bullet from Beartooth over 20 grains of H110. It's a proven deer hammer.

The Red highlights reflect a correction and/or clarification. I apologize for the typo.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

if the 357 Handi's have the long chamber, could one not just trim back the Maxi to just fit? 

would that not preclude chambering in the revolver?    and would require no alterations?

Many have found they can load and fire 360 DW ammo with out issue in std H&R 357 mag chambers.

I do not understand your second comment/question.
...
CW

CW:  my second question was refering to chambering a shortened Maxi in the revolver.  if the brass is over max length for the 357, then perhaps he could check it in his revolver to ensure it can't chamber.
then, he would have no concerns about firing the hot load in the weaker gun.

He gets what he wants, and requires nothing more than trimming some brass, and not altering of a firearm

[otterbob]

  CW,


 
I like to carry only one gun while hunting/trapping, But I do carry a variety of load choices, from shot shells to hot and heavy magnums. Currently all of my loads could be used in my revolver, but with my new 357 trapper barrel, my load selection can be increased by adding a “rifle only” load.
Thus, I was considering the above mentioned Lyman 358315 204gr cast pushing high-end maxi performance as long as the OAL would not allow the load to be chambered in a revolver.

 
After a little reading on other forums it seems that the above mentioned “Rifle Bullet” (358315) crimped in the crimping groove in 357 magnum brass would not work in a revolver do to its OAL. Everything I have read indicates that the bullet would be to long for the revolvers cylinder, yet it should be fine in the Handi. If it does not chamber in the Handi I could always ream to Maxi and load accordingly.

 
I was wondering if anyone here has tried the bullet. Or could offer other hot and heavy load data.

 
Below are 3 loads that I now carry.
I generally hunt with the 357 magnum but change out to the “38-Otterbob” to dispatch trapped critters or small game at close quarters, 38 spl. Is generally carried for mid-sized game like beaver where a 357 magnum is a bit much and the 38-otterbob a bit light.

 
left to right

 
38-Otterbob , 38 spl. , 357 Magnum.



 


Otter Bob
 

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

what is the OtterBob? A 38S&W short loaded with the 204gr'er?

and is the pictured one loaded with the Lyman 358315 204gr?

[cwlongshot]

if the 357 Handi's have the long chamber, could one not just trim back the Maxi to just fit? 

would that not preclude chambering in the revolver?    and would require no alterations?

Many have found they can load and fire 360 DW ammo with out issue in std H&R 357 mag chambers.

I do not understand your second comment/question.
...
CW

CW:  my second question was refering to chambering a shortened Maxi in the revolver.  if the brass is over max length for the 357, then perhaps he could check it in his revolver to ensure it can't chamber.
then, he would have no concerns about firing the hot load in the weaker gun.

He gets what he wants, and requires nothing more than trimming some brass, and not altering of a firearm

Yup,
 I got that.   The DW is made by DAN WESSON and is a bit longer than a Magnum case but shorter then a Maximum. Many handi owners have found they can safely fire this in a handi 357Mag chamber.
Also, some have found that yes a maxi WILL chamber in a handi Magnum chamber! But its likely NOT safe to fire as the bullet will very likely be pressed into the leade. This will raise pressures into the dangerious regions. So it is NOT ADVISEABLE.
 
OBob,
 Your thinking is sound. The bullet will likely prove unacceptable for revolvers. For the reasons you listed. But many shoot "rifle" 357 bullets in our handi maxi's and magnums!
 
Personally, no I have not used it. I don't shoot many cast rifle bullets. I reciently learned from Dinny of a attractive 35 cal bullet... I believe its called a "hammer head" and its 230 grs and simularly shapped to a full wad cutter. I will say its a WFP profile. He says he gets one hole accuracy from his trail boss loading out of the maxi at 50 yards.
 
I ahve a friend that casts some 250+ gr GC, RN 35 cal rifle bullets. He shoots them in a old 35 Winchester and gave me a small supply to try. I always wanted to try them in the maxi as a quiet, powerful load. I remember reading a story in handloader mag, on ultra heavy for caliber bullets to acheive lo noise and lots of energy. I will have to see if I can locate it...
 
Having three or four different power ranges from one rifle makes for an optimal trappers firearm!! I never did allot of trapping, but what I did do my Rem Nylon66 siuted me best. Light and enough power to do what I needed.
 
CW
 

[otterbob]

what is the OtterBob? A 38S&W short loaded with the 204gr'er?

  The “38-Otterbob” is a cartridge that I developed for use on my trap line and plinking back in the “82”-”83” season.

 
No, it is not the Lyman 358115 204gr, I do not have that mold or any of those bullets to try.

 
You have guessed part of it.
It was based on the idea of the 38 S&W Short, but, as the S&W will not chamber in a 38 spl or 357 mag because of the case diameter it is a modified 38 Spl. case with a case length of .750 loaded with a 125gr LRN on 3grs Of Bullseye.
I have been using a limited supply from years ago and have only a few left.
This summer I will have to load up a new batch, however after playing with them over the years I believe a “lighter” load is in order. I would like to try 2 grains bullseye on a 110gr LRN and on my 150gr LSWC that I am using in the other two loads shown.

I am as much of a nut for a light load as I am for a hot load. I have always believed that one should use a given load for a given application. Small game/plinking at 50 ft is not the same as hunting/silhouette shooting at 200 yds even though the same gun can be used for both.

The 38-Otterbob is visually identified by its short case thus eliminating the chance of chambering the "wrong" load.


Otter Bob


 

 
 

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

the 38OtterBob makes a lot of sense to me!
I'm the same way.

use enough but don't need too much.

and saves powder, and bullet costs. 

have you tried a wadcutter in it? I wonder if that would work well for a close "between the eyes" dispatch type round?

[otterbob]

have you tried a wadcutter in it? I wonder if that would work well for a close "between the eyes" dispatch type round?

I have not used a wadcutter in it but I don't see why it would not work just fine.
I used the LRN because I wanted it to "look" like a cartridge.

Before the 38-Otterbob we did on occasion use a hollow base wad cutter in low power 38 spl cases with the base turned forward.

You would be surprised at the Umff of the 38-Otterbob, it is no problem to dispatch from a short distance away. That is one of the reasons I am considering toning it down a touch, because I like that up close and "between the eyes" shot as well, plus It would be nice for shots "inside" the barn or chicken house.

Otter Bob

[jeneks84k10]

This is a bit off topic but related to the .357.  Now you can shoot .38s in a .357 correct? If so could you still shoot the .38s and .357s in a gun reamed out for the max?
I found a .357 handi today in a gun store for a really good price and I like the versatility, especially if you can ream it and still shoot the lighter loads.
Edit: found my answer, looks like a yes. bad news is I want it even more now.

[otterbob]

Jeneks84k10,

  Yes, you can shoot 38 spl in the 357 mag and even better you can shoot the 38 spl and the 357 mag in the 357 maxi. That is why a lot on handi owners ream to maxi.

 
I am looking for maxi performance without reaming yet have a safety feature built into the handload.

 
I think you would really enjoy that handi you found.

 

 
Otter Bob
 

[cwlongshot]

Otter Bob,
 I have found a old article form shooting times that may have some information you are looking for...
 
Send me your email and Ill get it to you...
 

 
cwlongshot@att.net
CW