« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: jams  (Read 929 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
jams
« on: November 26, 2011, 10:45:59 AM »
The photo is a friends Springfield Armory 1911-A1. He's having jam problems, not the classic "stovepipe" but the jammed case sits more or less parallel to the barrel as in the photo. This gun has a Wilson barrel and originally wore a full length rib with adjustable target sights. He removed the rib and installed low carry sights as shown. I presume removing that heavy rib may have somewhat upset the balance of the slide. I don't know about that but he says his problem began after removing the rib. It also has a blue Wilson recoil buffer. I'm wondering if the buffer could cause short cycling and produce such jams? I'm sure there are people here who can diagnose this so let's here your theories.
 
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: jams
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2011, 11:03:04 AM »
The buffer can sometimes cause short cycling, but should not.. the extractor could likely be too tight as well.  Dose this frame have a extended ejector?
CW
Logged
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: jams
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 11:03:42 AM »
Your extractor could be too tight and need tuning...
 
Do you have an extended ejector installed?
 
Try it without the buffer and see what happens....
 
CW
Logged
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2011, 12:33:47 PM »
Neither I nor the gun's owner would know for sure if it has an extended ejector but just looking at the pictures in Brownells catalog, I don't think so. Any work done on it was done before the present owner acquired it. The only thing he did was to remove the top rib and mount low profile sights. He said it worked OK before he removed the rib but I don't know if he really ran much ammo through it.
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Alvin

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2011, 12:38:13 PM »
The recoil spring was probably changed to account for the weight of the rib. Try putting a stock spring back in it.
Logged

Offline ole 5 hole group

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 275
Re: jams
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 12:43:30 PM »
If the jam happens with other mags and he keeps his slide “wet” then you can rule out the mags, so you’re basically left with a bad extractor or a bad recoil spring, if it’s a mechanical problem. 
 
The majority of times I’ve seen this type of jam was due to either a rough feed ramp (if the jam occurs with a live round and just needs to be polished for the cure) or the slide was run dry with carbon buildup (if the jam occurs with a fired case and just needs a few drops of oil or a squirt of CLP for the cure) or the recoil spring just gave out, which is somewhat rare as you normally have to fire a lot more than 5K rounds before the odd one causes problems.  When I shot competition bullseye, I changed my recoil spring twice a year, as a lot of the matches were no alibis and I was always paranoid of being that 1 in 1000 guy with a bad spring - others changed recoil springs every 2 to 3 years depending upon the moon's position or whatever reason they used and never experienced feeding problems.
.
Logged

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2011, 06:28:10 AM »
I haven't yet fired the gun myself but the owner says it happens with all three of the magazines he has, always failure to eject, not failure to feed. The gun is spotlessly clean and lightly oiled. Just manually cycling live rounds through it, it seems to work OK. The Wilson barrel has a very tight chamber and to extract a live round requires a pretty sharp yank on the slide to get it started but I don't see how that could cause ejection problems. I hope to get out to shoot it today, then maybe I'll know more, I already know why I prefer revolvers. ;D
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2011, 11:22:34 AM »
OK, shot it about a dozen rounds and discovered the fired case is still tightly held by the extractor but seems to have risen up and slipped over the ejector. The case was jammed very tightly between the extractor and the ejector, had to be pried out with a screwdriver. I'm pretty sure the tip of the ejector was broken off. If so, it is a very clean break and doesn't really look "broken" but it does appear shorter than pictures of that part. Anyhow, I will order a new extended ejector and give it another try shooting with the new part. Thanks to all who have replied.
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
Re: jams
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2011, 01:08:12 PM »
joe:  while you are at it you might want to think about getting a new extractor, too.
Logged

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
Re: jams
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2011, 12:39:28 AM »
Assuming the owner didn't physically damage the slide when he removed the rail, (Like over tightening the vise on the slide) the presence or absence of the rail has no effect on function. It would take a lot more mass than the Bo-Mar rib to effect cycling.
If the ejector is not broken/bent/or otherwise damaged, it's likely an extractor problem. The malfunction as you describe it, suggests the extractor is over tensioned. He should have the extractor tuned, if he is not comfortable doing it himself.
The fact that the pistol had the rib, (Likely a Bo-Mar) suggests the pistol may have been used for "Bullseye" shooting, and may have a "Softball" recoil spring. I'd replace that with a spring appropriate for the loads he intends to shoot, although I doubt it is a factor in the functioning problem.  Good luck!
Savage
Logged
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2011, 04:07:00 AM »
Seems like a few spare parts would be a good idea.
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2011, 04:07:06 PM »
They say on the educational dvd's that jamming is 80% extractor and 20% mag/ejector.
 
It appears to me the case is jumping out of the extractor before the ejector hits it causing the jam.  Take the slide apart and put a case in the extractor to see if it holds it tight and rotate the slide to see if the case falls out, it shouldn't.  If it does fall out you need to tune the extractor, bend it till it holds the case snug.
 
What causes the extractor to lose its tuning is we load a round in the barrel then close the slide on it.  We need to load the barrel from the magazine all the time.  Trust me i know......
Logged

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 07:25:57 AM »
Well no crazy, when the jams occurred the case was still held by the extractor, very tightly stuck between the extractor and the ejector. When it did eject and function the fired case was barely pooped out straight up and back. Resting the gun two handed across the hood of my truck the fired case, when ejected at all, would plop on the truck hood between my elbows, just about a foot behind the gun. I once managed three shots without a jam and it seemed to feed just fine if there wasn't a fired case in the way. The jam couldn't be cleared by just dropping the mag and retracting the slide, the fired case had to be pried out from between the extractor and the ejector. I've removed the ejector and  ordered a new Springfield Armory ejector from Midway and am awaiting deliver so I can try the gun again.
 I do realize it is difficult to diagnose problems from a written description of the malfunction and I do appreciate the efforts of those who have tried. ;D
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: jams
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2011, 07:30:09 AM »
This one is not so difficult.  Your extractor needs adjustment.

You said the ejector might be cracked off? Obviously this is quite possible f the cases are getting stuck between it and the slide/extractor.

Chang the ejector and check the extractors tension and adjust as necessary.

Good luck
CW
Logged
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2011, 06:37:38 AM »
Thanks, yes it looks like the tip of the ejector is cleanly broken off or may have been ground off. The tip is at a slightly upward angle which permits the fired case to ride up and over it rather than being ejected.
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline CherokeeT

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2011, 08:43:29 AM »
Your desctription of the ejector sounds like a factory part, not broken; mine are that way, not extended.  Extractor is probably the problem.
Logged
God Bless America
NRA Life, TSRA, SASS

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2011, 08:55:47 AM »
In watching the how to gunsmith the 1911 dvd's again for the winter they mention there are a few different designs on the ejector too.
 
If you do a search for 1911 extractor tuning a few sections will come up with a lot of info.  Plus its all free.  In the 1911 forum there is lots of info there too.
 
I like to fix things myself even if it costs me the $$ for the tooling and fixtures.  Right now i just may take a gunsmith course too.  I like working on guns, fixing them, tweeking them to make them better shooters too.  I just like the hands on and sitting at the bench on a good day health wise.  It just gives me some worth and something to do being disabled.
Logged

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2011, 06:27:42 AM »
I have the new ejector installed but it's just too durn cold to get out to shoot. LOL  Comparing the new ejector, which was listed as "Springfield Armory Extended Ejector", to the one which had been in the gun, I don't see any noticeable difference in length but a very different shape on the tip. The new part is longer at the top, angling downward and back. The old part is angled slightly the other way, longest at the bottom and sloping back toward the top. It looks like the old part would encourage the fired case to ride up and over it. Anyhow, we'll see how she does when it gets a bit warmer, it was -14 this morning.
Logged
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
Re: jams
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 05:24:02 AM »
Come on its never too cold to test fire.  I hope your using a light weapons oil for cold temps.  Or you can burnish the moly into the pores of the metal and wipe off the excess.
 
Did you work on the extractor too? Tune it so it holds the case firmly when you rotate the slide 360 degrees.
 
I feel if were going to own these awesome 1911's we better learn how to fix them.  Its not hard to do.  CZY
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »