Opinions on Queen Cutlery and Great Eastern Cutlery folders?

[Dand]

Anybody have comments on the the current Queen Cutlery folders using D2 steel?


Do they make a small locking folder you really like?




How about for Great Eastern Cutlery?  I just discovered them - never heard of them before as I'm not much of a collector.




Had a lovely tiny Kershaw that was so good - fantastic edge holder that I never shopped for anything else until I lost it.


I'm learning lots now and trying to stick with USA made blades.


I'm trying the Bear & Sons 224R, it seems well built but I'm not finding it to hold an edge well.

[Joel]

I've had 3 Queen folders in D-2 and found the blades' to be on the soft side.  D-2 comes into it's own at around Rc 61-62 and these definitely weren't near the hardness of my own D-2 knives.  It's been a couple of years, and they may have changed that.  Never had any luck with their knives as far as fit, finish or durability goes, but many others have.  Again their quality control problems may have been solved with their current knives.


Great Eastern was started, of course, by a small group of Queen cutlers who were dissatisfied with Queen's manufacturing processes and  quality control.  They're also located in Titusville, PA.
Never owned one, but do hear a lot of good things about them.

[Dand]

Thanks Joel, I was hoping you'd comment. 

Hope others do too.

I have a little Queen trapper style in carbon steel I was given back in the late 60's or early 70's and takes, holds a fairly good edge.

I was looking at Queen cause I wasn't impressed with the stainless blades by Case. 

But its been a long time since I tried Case too.  I'm open to comments on their current production too.

I've seen a few comments on this forum that seem to like Case CV blades.

[kyelkhunter3006]

The feedback I've heard on the Queen products is that they are butter knife dull from the factory and there can be QC issues with them.  Most owners say they wish they'd gone a different direction with their purchase.  Once they have the knife sharpened to their tastes, they do say they make good users.

I wouldn't buy any Case knives with stainless blades.  I've never heard anything positive about them at all.  The CV blades are the same as 1085 carbon steel.  It's an easy to sharpen carbon steel that can take some abuse.  Edge holding is ok.  I've heard a lot of people talk about how well they hold an edge, but most of the older knives I've seen were sharpened by laying the entire blade flat on the stone instead of just the edge.  They blades were thinned out so much they were more like a straight razor than a knife, so even a dull blade would cut ok.

These knives are made to sharpen up easily, not necessarily retain an edge for a long time.  I've had a couple and to be honest, performance wise, I couldn't tell any difference between them and the Schrade Old Timer's that were made in the USA.  The Case's were much prettier and they have a cult following among collectors, which make them more expensive.

I read a rumor the other day that Case is planning on moving some of their production to China, but who knows?

[Joel]

The only Case knifes I buy are the CV types.  CV stands for Chrome Vanadium and the steel used is 50100-b(0170-6).  1085 is a carbon tool steel with no Vanadium and very little chrome.  Many of the newer steels have started to incorporate Vanadium, sometimes in very large amounts.
It acts as a grain "shrinker/refiner" allowing the steel grains to be much more similar in shape and therefore compact themselves much closer to each other with less air space between them.  The more compact the grain structure, the stronger, and more wear resistant, the steel.  Breaks down to mean better edge holding.   The Stainless that Case uses is undoubtedly one of the 420 series(not to include 420HC which is more like 440A).  That series is very rust resistant, very soft and very cheap.  You get what you pay for.

[Dand]

This info is all very helpful to me.  Back in the 70's when I started field work, I bought a large liner lock Case sod buster, stainless.  It sharpened ok for me and I used it hard until the blade was a lot shorter and I'd worn the edge to where the blade was a lot thicker and really wouldn't take an edge well. So then I got another, same style Sod Buster - but that one was much poorer at taking edge than the first one.  Maybe I was getting more sophisticated?  Then I picked up a Puma general or something - looked alot like the Buck 110 but with a much longer point.  It took a lot more to sharpen it - using a jig - but it would STAY sharp much better than the Cases. I skinned 3 caribou with it and it was still sharp until I hit a bone really hard.  I used up that Puma mending nets, crab pots, and cutting crab lines etc - hard use as all that stuff has sand embedded.  And I was using and EZ Lap for fast sharpening most of the time.  I wore that edge down to where the temper wouldn't hold much of an edge for more than a few minutes. Somewhere along in the late 80's my BinL gave me a little Kershaw Easy Rider series pocket knife that seemed a step up from the Puma - I could ONLY sharpen it with the Loray/Lansky.  But since I mostly opened letters, boxes, cut string, fingernails and generally lighter duty, the thing would stay sharp for months and months.  And sometimes I used it on caribou, moose, maybe a bear and beaver even. But I've lost 3 of them now and replacements are hard to find.  So I embarked on a learning effort and search for a good replacement that isn't made in China. And I got bumfoozzled by all the types and steels etc etc out there, plus seeing that more and more old brands really come out of China. Case makes a pretty little lock back folder but its their stainless that gets pretty poor reviews. And I'm a bit suspicious of a place that seems to be more excited about a dozen different colored handles than a blade that cuts. I looked at Queen, made in USA, but tho they use D2 steel, reviews are rather unimpressive.


For some reason I have always avoided Buck, but their 500 series locking folders are right at the style and size I like - but I see mixed reviews for the current production of those too.


So I'm looking and learning. Just for old time sake, I'm not ruling out high carbon.  I've seen some old high carbon blades that with a little care hold up well. Heck for a lot of my butchering I use 3 old hickory knives that work wonderfully as long as I take care of the edges.


Great Eastern is intriguing but none of their lock backs are small enough. And I don't know where to go from here........


so thanks for the info, and I welcome suggestions.


Dan

[kyelkhunter3006]

Joel, this was passed onto me from a member on another forum regarding Case's CV steel.  I've also talked to a couple of engineers from other knife companies and they've told me the same thing about CV.  It's in the 10** genre of steels.

"I have a copy of a composition certificate dated 1968 for alloy sold to WR Case by one of the major steel companies.

According to that cert, the alloy contained:

.86% Carbon
Chromium (less than 1%)
Vanandium (less than 1%)

That would be an alloy on the order of 1085CV."

I know that in the spring Blade 2012 they posted that Case's CV steel was 1095CV.

[Joel]

There is a 1095 CV, but I've never come across any reference to 1085CV.  Out of curiosity I did a extensive search and still can't find it.  I did find a 1085c, which is still only a carbon steel. The .85c/<1%CR/<1%V is 0170-6 which is  the steel makers designator.  It runs .85-.95 C/.04 Cr/.19 V.  It's AISI number is 50100-b. So in '68 they were using that steel. You're mostly likely right about what you heard about 1095CV being their current steel, since the manufacturer has ceased making 0170-6(Sharon steel who made it for Camillius and Cold Steel where it was called Carbon V).  1095 CV seems a logical replacement.

[Tony]

I emailed Case back in 2006 and here is what they told me on what type of steel they use in their knives, " Tony the CV we use is 1095 modified and the SS we use is 420HC. Jim - Consumer relations." I'm pretty sure they haven't changed since then. I have never had any problems with their 420HC blades on the 2 Case knives that I own. They hold their edge really good and are easy to sharpen. 

[Joel]

The Case 420HC, assuming that's what they actually use, blades are horrible in my evaluation.  I have newer knives by both Case and Buck and the Case knife doesn't even come close.  But they are easy to sharpen; anything that soft would be.