Encore 45-70 and cast bullets

[shotgunner]

I have an Encore barrel on the way and want to develop some cast bullet loads for it. The only mold I have on hand is an Ideal 457124, a 360-380 grain round nose, so I will start with it. This is my first 45-70 and I have some questions. What powder? I have H322 and IMR 4198 on hand and would like to give them a try. Fillers? Do I need dacron in this big case? I am not looking for top velosity, just an accurate load that does not kick my teeth loose. What other bullet might I try? I thought I would try a flat point in case I decide to buy a lever action. Any help would be appreciated. Shotgunner

[Red Canyon]

For mild target loads I've used both 3031 and H 4198.  Most of the reloading books list Trap Door loads for those and other powders as well. I just started at the minimum load and best luck has been with cast bullet plain base on the milder side, but it was necessary that I size .001 over groove diameter of the Encore and run a fairly soft alloy.   I use  10 parts wheel weight with 2%tin mixed with 1 part lead.   After years of trying to shoot the hardest cast bullet on the plant possible, I' learned my rifles like softer alloys for the lower pressure loads I 've been shooting past few years.

Red

[shotgunner]

I just bought a mold for a 300 grain flat point bullet. It is a gas check but has one cavity opened to turn it into a plain base. I will keep working with the 4198 as H322 is quite dirty, leaving the barrel full of un burned powder. I started with straight wheelweights and will add some linotype and see how it goes. My mold is casting at .4575 with wheelweights and making them a little harder should also get the diameter up to where the .458 size die can true them up a little. Thanks for the advice, Shotgunner

[Red Canyon]

My best luck with H322 was with heavier bullets and a firm crimp.  I did get the unburned powder somewhat but groups were very consistent.

[FAsmus]

Shotgunner;

S: I will keep working with the 4198 as H322 is quite dirty, leaving the barrel full of un burned powder..

F: You will find 4198 workable in the 45/70 but for good consistent performance get some 5744 and load 27 grains of it under your typical 405 - 500 grain bullet. For filler (I use it for every shot I fire in 45/70) consider 1/4 sheet T/P over the powder, inserted now, not tamped down or compressed at all.

Also for excellent accuracy get some SR4759. This powder is made for reduced loads and is used for all my match shooting in 45/70; 21 grains with the T/P filler is all you need.

Good morning,
Forrest

[shotgunner]

I have been using the TP as a filler, just about exactly as you describe. I do notice that there are un-burned particles on the snow in front of the bench. I will try the powders you suggest soon. I am incurably cheep and hope to use up the 4198 and H322 that have been gathering dust in my reloading room for several years. Several years ago I made a deal where I bought half the contents of a small gun shop, all of the reloading supplies. There was 150 lbs of powder, mostly IMRs. Cases of primers, all Remington. I sold off 1/4 of it, got back enough money to keep the rest. I have been trying to shoot up this stuff for some time. It will be gone soon, along with my hearing, and I will try something new. I have enough to keep me busy for the summer months anyway. Thanks for the loads, it is helpful when someone is specific with the data. Shot

[Blackhawk44]

Re-read Red Canyon.  Don't add linotype, add lead.  You will find that they need to be softer, not harder.  Size to .459, maybe even .460.

[FAsmus]

Shotgunner,

S: I have an Encore barrel on the way..

F:  What is an Encore barrel and what rate of twist does it have? What kind of action is it on?

S:  What other bullet might I try?

F:  The weight bullet depends on the rate of twist in the barrel. If you have something on the slow side, like 1:22 or slower, you're stuck with light bullets. If it is 1:18 or faster you can move right on into 500 or maybe even 540 grain bullets.

I have had good accuracy with Lyman's new 525 grain 457132 "Postell" even if it really isn't a true Postell design in my 1:16 twist barrel.

Good evening,
Forrest

[Red Canyon]

Shothgunner,
I load light cast bullets for the 45-70, enough that I use my Hornady Progressive press, and I (we)  cast for 3 other shooters, so we tinker to no end.
We shoot Encore's.  H&R Buff Classic,  Marlin 1895 and Sharps Repros and my Browning BPCR.  For the levers we cast RCBS 300 GC, SAECO 350 GC and Lyman 405 PB even a SAECO 475 GC FP. I have 9 moulds for 45-70 300 to 550 gr, so the combinations are unlimited.  The light weight bullets are nearly  all for plinking steel at moderate range, with accuracy and reduced recoil the goal.   The shooter with the Encore prefers the 300 and 350, same as I do in my 1895 CB.  He uses Unique, following the data from the Lyman cast bullet manual.  The RCBS mould casts the smallest, but for the Encore we've found that if we cast the softest bullet we can blending WW2%Tin with lead that will still keep the gas check fimly in place we have the best accuracy and leading has been non existent using good lube and sized right at groove diameter.   The Encore can really thump your cheek if you stoke it up but it is splendidly accurate with the Unique loads.   But using Unique you must take every precaution against double charge.  Don't get me wrong,  we have tried all the Rhino Stopper loads, maybe it's our casting and loading techniques and powder choices , but for the fun to shoot loads, we've moved to the softer alloys.  Folks at Hodgdon, LBT and Lyman have been invaluabe resources.

[Red Canyon]

I must add that Lee's #2 Reloading manual has a great section on cast bullets and alloy selection to match pressures.  With the literature available from Lyman and LBT, the Lee manual and others my cast bullet shooting has become much more than cost savings.  It's been a long time since I shot a jacketed bullet.  The experimenting is endless.

I would encourage any shooter and reloader to give it consideration, or just try some commercial cast.  Casting Equipment is affordable to get started and used equipment sells quickly, so you can recover most of it if you don't care doing it.