Author Topic: bullet for reduced .243 load  (Read 1075 times)

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Offline spinafish

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bullet for reduced .243 load
« on: December 12, 2011, 05:03:31 AM »
I am going to load some reduced.243s for a slightly built ten year old boy to shoot in his Christmas present. Santa is bringing him a Rossi single shot with 22lr.,243 and a 20 gauge shotgun barrel. the Hodgdon data suggests the 80 grain Hornady SSP bullet...but it has been discontinuted.  I have 80 grain Winchester powerpoints and 90 grain Ballistic Tips..I am wondering which bullet would perform better at the reduced speeds..data is showing a muzzle speed of 2704 fps..Am willing to purchase a different bullet. Any thoughts appreciated.
 
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
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Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 07:09:50 AM »
I would go with the 80 grain bullet which I believe is a varmint bullet and should expand well at reduced velocities, although not as well as it would at full velocity.  Varmint bullets are designed  for fast expansion in light-skinned small animals where big-game bullets are designed to penetrate larger animals without breaking up.

Offline spinafish

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 07:34:46 AM »
may just load acouple of them and try them in wet phonebooks and see how they do.
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis

Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 08:28:29 AM »
I've used 75 gr. Sierras in Blue Dot reduced loads but haven't done any expansion testing or shot any critters with them (yet).

Offline fastchicken

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 12:57:13 PM »
I made reduced loads for a friend's daughter to use in my rifle using Hodgdon's instructions with H4895 and 100gr Hornadys. Mine were right at 2300fps, pleasant to shoot and although it never got used on deer, from my "scientific" experiments, [water jugs and sand bags] they opened up great at 100yrds.
  My newest load is an 85gr Sierra BTHP, which even at full power loads isn't more than a nudge when shot, and will kill deer just fine.

Offline spinafish

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 01:05:40 PM »
that 85 grainer is an awesome bullet! that is what I load for myself in my .243..
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis

Offline deerandduck

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 01:30:41 PM »
I agree that the Sierra 85 BTHP is a great bullet, but not at reduced loads, i.e. about 2400 fps.  This I know from experience and confirmed by the bullet guys at Sierra.  I did a reduced load for my daughter and she shot a deer with it.  We did find the deer but no blood trail.  Good chest shot, but small hole in and small hole out.  The Sierra guys confirmed my thoughts that this bullet did not expand at that speed, suggesting about 2800 + for good expansion.  They also did suggest the lighter bullet such as the varmint bullet mentioned above.
thanks,
Deerandduck

Offline LanceR

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 03:27:06 PM »
spinafish, you don't specify what the game/target is so although I'm guessing white tailed deer giving advice on specific bullets is kind of tough.

In any case, I would suggest contacting the manufacturers concerned and asking what minimum threshold velocity will guarantee achieving the full intended functioning.

Hornady is perhaps the best manufacturer to start looking at in that they publish (on their site) the velocity ranges in which their bullets are intended to function.  I do enough work on and writing about reduced loads to wish that everyone did so.

Please understand that I'm only expressing my own opinions but...

Testing on wet phone books, sandbags or water jugs will only help if you are hunting wet phone books, sandbags and water jugs.  Living flesh offers very different challenges to a bullet.  Animals don't feel or react to trauma like phone books, sandbags or water jugs nor do bullets shot into those targets perform the same as when shot into the flesh and bone they are designed for.  "Testing" hunting bullets in such targets has roughly the same applicability and level of resulting confidence as testing a tree felling axe on a steel tree. 

It is not what the axe was designed to cut.

H4895 can be loaded down to 60% of the maximum powder charge for any load listed for that powder.  That's a lot lower percentage of the maximum charge than the loads listed in the Hodgdon page for H4895 reduced loads.  You may find that a heavier bullet at an even lower velocity is what you want but the best way to find out is by contacting the bullet manufacturers. 

As already expressed, light for caliber bullets are often varmint bullets and a quick check with the maker can help weed those out since they often are lumped into a big game bullet line.  The bullets listed on the Hodgdon reduced load page are all proven deer killers, in the stated reduced loads, to 200 yards. 

Hodgdon has a wealth of data that is not on their site.  If you call them they can likely either provide you data or tell you how to compute the most likely velocity range a reduction of XX% in charge will net.  My personal experience with H4895 is that the drop is pretty linear but they can confirm or deny that for you.

Once you can establish the baseline velocities need for the available bullets you can develop a load that will have a reasonable chance of doing all the things you want it to do.

You have more than a half year to come up with a a hunting load.  Santa only needs to provide a load that  goes "Bang!", makes a hole in a target etc.

For now I'd suggest concentrating on low end loads for practice.  You've got a lot of time to brew up a killer reduced load for next season.

Good luck and please allow me to say that I envy you the company of the lad.  We raised 6 kids on our farm, 5 boys, and the smallest is now 6'1".  I miss having younger ones around.

Lance

Edit:  here's the link to Hornady where they list the recommended velocity ranges for most of their bullets.  http://www.hornady.com/bullets

Another good choice might be the 85 grain Barnes TSX BT.  A reduced load of something like 31.5 grains of H4895 would net a velocity (22" barrel) of around 2,550 FPS.  That is more than fast enough and hard hitting enough to guarantee functioning and enough penetration for deer to 200+  yards.  It will also keep the bullet within 3" above or below the crosshairs to about 250 yards.  That seems to be pretty good for a "reduced" load.

If you were limiting shots to much closer ranges you could pull even more steam off the load.

Offline SteveHawaii

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 04:14:11 PM »
I tried reduced loads in my Rossi Trifecta .243, without much luck.  Accuracy really drops off with reduced loads, at least in my experience.  Medium standard loads worked best.  My suggestion is to get a slip-on recoil pad.  I got one from Walmart (re-labeled Limbsaver) in small that works great.  That will make the gun fun to shoot for your son as much as reduced loads will.
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Offline smokehouserex

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 04:17:53 PM »
 
 
  Hello spinafish:
  I have used a 243 occasionally for 30 yrs. or so, killed some deer and many crows and groundhogs. My son as well, started using it at about 8-9 yrs.old. He too was kinda smallish in size then and had to rest it to shoot it and still managed to kill deer. We started with 100 seirra but found they didn't expand as we wanted so we went to 85 gr  seirra, I believe. They worked OK, but we liked larger calibers better. 
  I have a friend who was telling me last year, that they were using a 55gr. winchester maybe a ballistic tip IIRC anyway it was a 55gr. winchester bullet at about 37-3800 fps and were deadly on deer. He is a very experienced outdoorsman and has killed more deer with a long bow than almost anyone I know so I would trust his word.
  Federal has a 80gr.SP that they reccomend for medium size game, more especially, deer which should work well for your ten yr. old boy and they are only 21.79 per 20. The vel. is 3300fps, and the recoil is not bad.
  I hope this helps. I never liked reduced loads in a 243 but thats just me.
  safety first
  HM

Offline swifty22

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 01:17:00 PM »
When our son was young I got him a Rem mod. 7 youth model in 243 w/a 18.5"bbl. W/full loads it was way to much for him so I loaded 19 gr H-4198 w/LR primers and whatever 75-85 gr bullets were cheapest. We went to MT shooting gophers for several years and he shot at least 250 of those rounds each time, along w/ about 3 cartons of 22 Blazers!  One thing I liked about that load is you can load a whole bunch of rounds from a can of powder and nothing beats lots and lots of trigger time. I also loaded a few 85 SP's to medium  just so he could get used to them. When it came time for deer season I loaded 85 gr. Nosler PT's  w/H-4895 and he never looked back or developed a flinch. One thing I made sure of was that he wore ear plugs AND muffs all the time! Little bugger has a master's degree now and makes way more $ than me and is in his early 20's (sure glad I took him hunti'n and fishi'n a whole lot cause now he thinks we should go get  Cariboo's on his nickle one of these years)-Muddy   

Offline fastchicken

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2011, 01:37:35 PM »

Testing on wet phone books, sandbags or water jugs will only help if you are hunting wet phone books, sandbags and water jugs.  Living flesh offers very different challenges to a bullet.  Animals don't feel or react to trauma like phone books, sandbags or water jugs nor do bullets shot into those targets perform the same as when shot into the flesh and bone they are designed for.  "Testing" hunting bullets in such targets has roughly the same applicability and level of resulting confidence as testing a tree felling axe on a steel tree. 

It is not what the axe was designed to cut.

You are correct that live animals don't really compare to water jugs, etc., however I never claimed  to be substituting for live animals. My tests can actually be quite useful for the purpose of comparing one bullet to another or different impact velocities of the same bullet. Say a particular bullet really comes apart in the water, and then the sand, and another doesn't, then I can figure it would most likely perform the same in a deer compared to the other bullet.
  I can't get a bunch of live animals to cooperate with me for more authentic "testing", so I use what I can, and since flesh and organs are something like 75% water, and hunting bullets are designed to be used on flesh, what better to use than water? So I guess I am using the bullets for what they were designed for.

Offline spinafish

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Re: bullet for reduced .243 load
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 10:20:30 AM »
thanks for the replys everyone..I have decided to go with the 80 grain Winchesters for the reduced loads.I am loading for a friend at church's son.  I will have four boxes of ammo for him.  One 20 rd. box of 80 grains at 2700 fps, 1-20 rd. box of 85 grain Sierra HPBT (the load I use for deer), a box of factory 80 grainers from Winchester and one- 20 round box of 100 grain soft points.  That should provide enough ammo to get his scope sighted and have a few rounds to find out what the rifle likes and which loads he is capable of shooting well.  Will refill them when he brings back the brass.  His father doesn't hunt..but he has been hunting with his uncle.  I too like to compare bullets using a water jug and wet magazines or newpapers..can't afford ballistic gel and don't have surplus animals to try the bullets on.  I have found that if they will expand in my test medium, they will expand in a deer.. and if they don't..they won't! 
 
 
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis