Author Topic: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????  (Read 1817 times)

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Offline Darrell Davis

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Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« on: December 10, 2011, 09:23:11 AM »
Morn'in shooters,
 
A friend is starting to get into the Cowboy Mounted Shooting where they shoot blank loads, while mounted on a horse, at ballons.
 
I was just at his house a short time ago, to see if I could help him with his Black Powder loads for his .45LC and have some questions as per what is correct for this situation.
 
I know you don't want air gaps with B. P. , but the question is what about crimping the case mouth over the fiber wad  which contains the B.P.?
 
He says he thinks some folk don't even crimp the case mouth.?.?.?.
 
The loads recommended to him were 37 - 42 gr of B.P., and he loaded 35. 
 
At that load level, with his cases/powder/wad, there could not be enough crimp to secure the wad tight to the powder without damaging.
 
So, #1, does the wad need to be crimped?
 
#2 is there enough pressure in these loads to flatten the crimp back out?
 
#3 if the load does need to be crimped, shouldn't the amount/level of the powder be increased to the point where the crimp is then tight to the wad?
 
Is there a site with info about this sport and loading?
 
Thanks,
 
Keep em coming!
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 02:43:36 PM »
Hmmmm? Well, the BP blanks I have made in the past have not been crimped at all. I simply glued a card wad over the powder and they worked fine.

I donno fer sure, and hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are required to use factory made blanks in competition.
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

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Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 05:45:12 PM »
Cut Crooked,
 
Thanks for the reply,  What I am finding, says the same as you about the crimp.  None.
As per the factory ammo, I sure have no idea, but these reloads are being used, so maybe just for practice.
One thing I had forgotten about, was the need to drill out the flash hole to keep the primer from backing out.
After hearing that info, remembered that same thing needed to be done for indoor target loads propelled just by primers.
So thanks, I think I am coming up with enough info to get the friend going.
 
Keep em coming!
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

A
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 05:19:29 AM »
Unless they have changed the rules, the only approoved ammo comes from one or two suppliers, and is issued to the shooters at the match and the only ammo that may be used in the match. Might google up the mounted shooter site, and look for the suppliers there. I do know they use a special starline brass that is crimped like a 22 birdshot case.
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Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 05:28:58 AM »
Ranch 13,
 
Thanks!            AS said earlier, not into this stuff and just trying to help a friend.
 
Apparently reloads are being used, as one of the fellows from a local club gave me a call about his process.
 
AS said, don't when and for what the reloads are being used.  Just the middle man pass'in along info.
 
Had a horse when I was a kid, but no one in their right mind would call me a rider or horseman!
 
later
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 06:00:36 AM »
Darrel here's the link to the CMSA http://www.cmsaevents.com/info.cfm.
If I were going to try to load blanks I'ld pour a case full of 2f, then using the case flaring die would gentely seat a .060 fiber wad (or a wad cut from heavy paste board etc) to just below flush with the case mouth. Then crimp the snot out of the case mouth. This may be one time where the lee fcd might actually be worth something.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 12:45:28 PM »
Ranch 13
 
I personally agree as to the crimp, but seems the common local "wisdom" is no crimp and I guess they deal with miss fires or quib loads when they happen.
 
I saw Bob, the fellow I was trying to get info for, at our local senior citizens lunch today, and ask him about the factory loads for official shoots.
 
He said, yes, on the official shoots, the shoot organizer is responsible for providing ammo.
 
What he is wanting to do is simply have "practice" blanks.
 
It appears that he is a LONG time horse person, but is just getting into the Cowboy Mounted shooting thing.
 
There is an active club in the area, and I guess I got ropped into my part as I am a long time reloader.
 
Sounds Like I'll meet with him in the next couple of days and then should be done with my part of the program.
 
Thank everyone for sign on and providing info!
 
Keep em coming!
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 12:57:33 PM »
I wouldn't think there'ld be any squib rounds so long as the powder was compressed about 1/16 -1/10 of an inch.
 Good luck and have fun with it.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 01:03:02 PM »
That sounds about right with what I'm hearing on this end.
 
CDOC
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Offline thejanitor

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2011, 04:22:08 PM »
Hello- I have been loading these exact blanks for my friend who does the mounted cowboy balloon shoots. You either need to glue the card on top or roll crimp it, the problem if you don't is A: the cards can slip loose and leave the powder in the ammo box.
B: with no back pressure the card and powder fly out with a tiny poof and the primer isn't enough to pop the balloon with that much non burning powder.... And this is very inconsistent, as they ride shooting I hear bang pop bang pop. Not a real good way to train.
THESE ARE ONLY FOR PRACTICE when you go to an event they load your gun with the approved pinch crimped blanks. (I was told)
Now there is also a difference in guns, 3 of the 4 colts I have been loading for shoot these blanks fine, one has an issue with the primers being backed out of the primer pocket jamming up the cylinder- EVEN WITH BLANK BRASS with the over sized flash hole. I was just told Thursday NOT to use CCI or Federal primers according to the guy I spoke to in their circle of shooters they found some of the guns with a slightly rougher area in the back of the cylinder catch worse than other guns and Fedral primers very much so make it worse? So I have now got some winchester primers to try in that one gun to see if it makes any difference. Not sure if these tips will help you or not but I went into this completely blind and got one guy here at GBO to tell me what his Dad was loading and I have been winging it since. So other than the one guns primer issue the other three are working well, but we did find Fg (one F) worked best and when I pryed open one of the crimped factory blanks they bought, it had either Fg or cannon powder it was quite coarse and noticably bigger than FFg.
Good luck, PM me if I can help at all, I don't get in here very much. I am usually in the H&R section  :D   thejanitor

Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 08:17:01 AM »
Thanks Janitor,
 
I do think we have it now under control.  From the info rec'd here, and the info coming in from the local shooters, weems like we are good to go!
 
I have seen the "official" loads for the competition, and they ARE crimped nose cases and as indicated are what is allowed during the competitions.
 
The local friend did fire off some of his loads the other day, went bang real well, but time will tell the results of not putting a crimp on the practice loads.
 
At this point, the type of wad used seems to be holding very well, but handling and a cylinder full of fired loads might tell another story.
 
Thanks for everyone's help.
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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Offline Lightning Ross

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 03:06:39 AM »
Star line brass and top brass  makes brass blank ready with pimers already drilled out. Crimped brass are not recomded . crimping the brass makes it brittle and will break off when reloaded an fired.. My practice blanks are strait loaded with 35 grains 2f goex a paper wad cut with buffaloarms wad cutter mounted in my press. I use playing cards or pop can cartons. Place wad on top of case and seat with seater die that is screwed almost all the way down compresses the powder just a bit. Then a little elmers gue to seal the wad let it dry and you have a practice blank. That you can reload those cases for ever.  All ammo at a mach is provided at the match. That ammo that has been crimped is not reloaded. The cost of ammo is included in the entry fee. Blank manufacturer do not reload crimped brass it is unsafe to take the chance of a projectile at a spectater sport when they are on all sides of the arena.  I have been a mounted shooter for ten years. And have trained several horses.

Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Cowboy Mounted Shooting ??????
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 05:53:20 AM »
Thanks Lightning,
 
Your comments are right down the line of what Bob has found out.
 
He has not used the glue on his loads, but at this point that does not seem to be a negative issue.
 
later,
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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