Author Topic: Question about 1860 Army cylinder seizing  (Read 772 times)

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Offline Harrigan

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Question about 1860 Army cylinder seizing
« on: January 18, 2004, 07:12:45 PM »
Hi fellow shooters. I'm new here... seems like a great forum. Which is good, because I'm having a problem with a gun...

About ten years ago, not really knowing anything about what I was buying, I purchased what Dixie was advertising as an 1860 Colt Army. I shot it a bunch of times, loving the BP experience, but after about four outings with it (maybe 72 firings?) I started to see a problem where the cylinder would seize up, locking in place until I disassembled the gun and put it back together.

A friend who was sort of an amateur gunsmith looked at it at the time, once clean and once right after it had jammed up -- he couldn't determine what was catching and preventing the cylinder from turning. On my final outing with the gun, it seized up after a single shot, or perhaps two or three -- I'm forgetting the exact details, all these years later.

Couple of things to note: the gun was made by A.S.M. -- I see other mentions of them here in the forums. Armi San Marco? Are they a decent manufacturer? Comparable to Pietta or Uberti? Is perhaps my pistole a piece of junk? It sure feels nice in the hand and has a wonderful action and great fit and finish -- at least to someone who doesn't really know better. :) Another curious bit is that the gun has a fluted cylinder... most pics I see of an 1860 Army have the smooth cylinder. Is this actually a replica of a different gun, like the 1862 Army?

So. While I consider my next C&B purchase (Uberti Dragoon, I'm thinking. The Walker is just so damned big. Though the 1851 Navy is pretty sweet as well...), does anyone have any advice on how I can get this gun into better working condition? Is the cylinder seizing up a common problem? I wish I could remember how many grains I was loading at the time and what kind of powder... but I do recall that I was in the middle of the range recommended for an 1860 .44. Could the choice of caps perhaps be a problem? Just looking for any thoughts before I have a proper gunsmith look into it.

Thanks in advance,

-Harrigan

Offline Prof. Fuller Bullspit

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Question about 1860 Army cylinder seizing
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2004, 08:21:49 PM »
Two issues spring to mind from my limited experience shooting cap and ball. First is to make sure your caps are fully seated. I have a 51 Navy and if I don't seat the caps with a seater they want to bind up. Second and most likely in my mind is a cap fragment falling down into the works and causing your binding.

Offline Flint

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1860 Army
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2004, 09:28:01 PM »
An 1860 Army with a full fluted cylinder was a legitimate Colt variation.  The full flute is available from Uberti, and I also have one that is on a 2nd Gen Colt 1860  The problem that occurs with a full flute 1860 or 1861 is the bolt timing is absolutely critical.  If the bolt drops too soon, such that it might put a ring on a standard round cylinder, it will hit the full flute in the rising wall, and lock it up, as the bolt spring is strong enough to overpower your cocking force pulling the hammer.  It is a steep climb, and the bolt has to be timed so it drops EXACTLY at the very small leade to the cylinder's locking notch, or directly into the notch.  That critical timing is the reason later cylinders were only half fluted.  Easy way to check it out is to slowly cock the gun, and watch where the bolt drops (snaps back through the window), if it drops in the deep trough of the flute, it can't climb the slope to the notch which is at the largest part of the cylinder.  If you can find an ASM standard round Army cylinder, swap it in to see if it solves the problem.  If the bolt drops way too early, it will scribe that dreaded ugly ring around the cylinder. Try bending the ears of the bolt spring apart carefully, to increase the spring pressure against the hammer's bolt cam. An Uberti cylinder can probably be fitted.   See VTIgunparts website for parts, cylinders, bolts, etc..
Flint, SASS 976, NRA Life

Offline jgalar

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Question about 1860 Army cylinder seizing
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2004, 03:41:49 AM »
Make sure the pin is greased well before installing the cylinder. If you get fouling between the cylinder and pin that could jam the cylinder. You could also get pieces of cap falling into the action. Try raising the barrel when cocking between shots.

Offline Harrigan

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Question about 1860 Army cylinder seizing
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2004, 08:22:17 PM »
Thanks for the input so far, folks. I'll be picking the pistol up from the gunsmith I left it with next week, and I'll report back what the problem was.

-Harrigan

Offline crossbow

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Question about 1860 Army cylinder seizing
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2004, 07:36:04 AM »
I go along with all the above possible causes and add one further.be sure the balls you are using are not  undersize and moving forward under recoil so jamming the cylinder or you may have one chamber slightly oversize allowing this.ASM guns are generally respectable quality.
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Offline 1860

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Question about 1860 Army cylinder seizing
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2004, 03:14:29 AM »
I'm guessing the cylinder bolt is not resetting on the cam of the hammer, either a cap fragment is stopping the hammer from going all the way down or the bolt needs adjustment/replacement.  this one of those, "gotta see it" type of things.

1860