Author Topic: Triple Seven crud ring..... (Read 1702 times)

scienceguy · « **on:** January 16, 2004, 05:44:37 AM »

Have any of you guys tested an Encore 50 cal. to see if Triple Seven in 2F or 3F causes less of a fouling problem in front of the breech plug? I wonder if there is any difference. I've used the 2F and have a problem after two shots unless I swab between shots. Thanks!

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2004, 06:02:47 AM »

I really don't have a fouling issue in my Encore. Maybe its the Breakfree?

scienceguy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2004, 08:08:41 AM »

Randy,

How exactly do you use/apply the Breakfree? What procedure do you follow?

Scienceguy

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2004, 10:54:20 AM »

I just clean the barrel by shooting hot water through it, scrubbing with a brass brush, repeat, give it a dry patch, then a couple of patches that are slopping wet with Breakfree CLP.

sheephunterab · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2004, 12:00:29 PM »

Randy, do you run a dry patch or two through before loading?

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2004, 12:03:42 PM »

After snapping a few caps, I fire a fouling shot, give it one spit patch, then load.

sheephunterab · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2004, 12:18:38 PM »

So what if you are going hunting and can't fire a fouling shot where you are?

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2004, 12:28:15 PM »

That normally doesn't happen, but here (for example) at 3 AM I'll just drop in a pair of T7 pellets followed by an empty sabot, and fire the flaming pellets into the ground in the backyard. Spit patch, load sans cap, and take off.

sheephunterab · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2004, 12:32:02 PM »

Hmmmm, seems like a good way to get a visit from the cops. I'm glad my rifle shoots without a fouling shot. I'm always hesitant to put any oil in my barrel as I hate the thought of the powder soaking it up after I load.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2004, 01:05:20 PM »

Firing flaming pellets into the air is a popular activity here around the 4th of July and New Year's eve. :?

jeff223 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2004, 01:24:57 PM »

what is break free?i never heard of it.something new?

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2004, 01:30:01 PM »

Break Free CLP has been around for some time now, originally developed for the military as an all-in-one "cleaner-lubricant-protectant." Brownells and most gun shops have it. You get far more with the squeeze bottles than the spray cans, like most things.

jeff223 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2004, 04:08:50 PM »

thankyou randy

jgalar · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2004, 04:58:23 PM »

Is the 777 crud ring a problem only when shooting sabots?? I only shoot patched ball and Lee REAL slugs and havent had any problems loading.

Just curioius.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2004, 05:41:41 PM »

Underclocked invented the crud ring, so he would know better.

The G2 was the first gun that had a dramatic amount of it for me.

Underclocked · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2004, 08:29:52 PM »

The crud ring is magical and mysterious. It comes from Triple7 but other powders have been known to produce a similar, though not as hard, deposit in the bore's area of ignition. The powder can be loose or pellet, FFg or FFFg, in large or small amounts, and it can be Monday or Saturday. Your buddy's exact twin of your rifle may get it while yours doesn't. Once you get it, it can't be cured and you will likely infect your other rifles with it. There are many prescriptions around the web for minimizing the magnitute of the crud. Those include cleaning methods, methods for drying your bore before the first load, preservatives, using milder ignitors, polishing that area of your bore, and some minor voodoo rituals. None are fool-proof. Throw some sugar in a very hot pan and you will see something deposit on the pan similar to the crud ring, then you'll wonder why the heck you did that.

Did you ever get a cut on your hand without knowing it, only to look at your hand later - see all the blood flowing and suddenly realize something hurts like mad? I haven't.

jgalar · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2004, 02:25:29 AM »

Its all perfectly clear now :eek:

Only those who are sinners in the eyes of the all mighty god of black powder get the crud ring.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2004, 04:25:52 AM »

Tired of the ol' crud ring (recipe in 1st paragraph)... tired of your first shot going 6" away from your 2nd shot?

??(recipe in 2nd paragraph)
==============================================

1)avoiding magnum powder charges(777) use recommended 85 grains loose or 2-pellets
2)using weaker 209 primers like CCI, Remington 209-4, Hornet concersion
3)purchasing another after-market concave breechplug
4)switching from FF to cleaner, finer FFF with Triple Se7en
5)using swabbing lubes like Lehigh Valley or Ballistol instead of spit, alky or Windex...
...are all benefactors to a lessening effect of crud rings in front of the breechplug. If you follow every step above, a crud ring should not exist after two consecutive shots. My experiences & Randy experiences may not be your experiences. Every rifle... every jug of powder... any weather condition can alter your range visit.

Fouling shots are not necessary. Either completely remove your gun oils b/4 shooting via rubbing/denatured alcohol or continue using Ballistol or Lehigh Valley Lube as your bore protectant. Here's proof Lehigh works as a bore protectant, patch lube and swabbing agent.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/mlexperiments/corrosion/corrosion.html

http://thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/lehigh_info.htm

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2004, 05:22:02 AM »

Quote

Here's proof Lehigh works as a bore protectant, patch lube and swabbing agent.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/mlexperiments/corrosion/corrosion.html

http://thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/lehigh_info.htm

There are a few problems with the "test." The substrate used is not the same as many gun barrel materials, and unconfined powder residue is not reflective of live fire residue.

"The test pieces were then placed in a (100%) humidity box in a stand so that they would not touch any surface and kept in a warm environment for two months. "

Does anybody REALLY store their muzzleloaders that way? FP-10 is discarded as "only" protecting the metal for one month under those conditions. Only? I don't doubt the Lehigh stuff is fine, but this type of testing is not as rigid or controlled as the Mil-Spec that Breakfree CLP (and apparently Firepower FP-10) exceeds.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2004, 07:08:47 AM »

Randy

As a bore protectant, Breakfree CLP does not protect like Lehigh Valley when often-found, barrel-drying procedures go awry prior to the final bore protectant being installed. That's why so many problems (rust) occur with Bore Butter/Wonder Lube.

Because Breakfree CLP is not of a water soluble base, it will not protect the bore as well as Lehigh in that test you described above when common mistakes are made because Ballistol & Lehigh have much better "moisture-pushing/absorbing" properties than Breakfree. I do agree that Breakfree is a superior lubricant to Lehigh in modern weapons... but it's no where as diverse as Lehigh -- in regards to multiple purposes concerning muzzleloaders. If I remember correctly, shooting muzzleloaders with Lehigh onboard is fine... with petroleum-based Breakfree... I don't think so!

Lehigh allows the shooter to keep the bore protectant in the barrel prior to shooting at the range without fear of wide shot patterns with his first two shots. One dry patch before shooting removes heavy spots & polishes the bore.

I will kindly request of you to "fool around" with Ballistol & Lehigh. Conduct some 1st & 2nd shot tests... see for yourself. Then try either as a bore protectant.... either as a patch lube.... oops I forgot... you are an inline type-of guy! Forget the patch test...lol.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2004, 08:42:05 AM »

Quote

Forget the patch test

That, I am fully qualified for. At least, the forgetting part.

fairchase · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2004, 04:41:19 PM »

Quote

"I'm glad my rifle shoots withouta fouling shot."

Me too!

If I have to do any cleaning before the meat is hung, that just means, something went wrong.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 19, 2004, 04:44:53 AM »

Quote

Lehigh allows the shooter to keep the bore protectant in the barrel prior to shooting at the range without fear of wide shot patterns with his first two shots.

If it does that, it is worth it. It's the first shot the has a different POI for me.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #23 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:18:30 AM »

Quote

"If it does that, it is worth it. It's the first shot the has a different POI for me."

Let me clarify this discussion! It works for "every shot" because I use Lehigh as the bore protectant... keep it in when I prepare the rifle at the range... then use the Lehigh as a light swabber every 2nd shot.

If you buy some, get an empty spray bottle. I use the liquid Land O Lakes spray butter bottle. Otherwise, you waste it. I was told Ballistol works under the same principle... I'll try the Ballistol test after I recover from hip replacement surgery..... probable first range visit in late March/early April.

BTW... You are more-than-welcome to "beat me to the punch" on the Ballistol test. I'll be confined to my home for at least a month -- can't drive for two months. But I can still participate here everyday. Get used to seeing me on BP forums alot after my surgery on January 27th. I also re-contracted my Dish Network TV contract. I'm getting 150 stations & 31 no-commercial movie stations to combat my boredom at home.

What concerns me most is "not gaining weight". I no longer have my "true photo" anywhere on the net. That's not me on the left... I swear to God, Allah, Buddha... everybody associated with the here-after.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:34:50 AM »

I didn't want to comment about the possibility of your excessive caloric intake-- but sorry to hear about the hip surgery, T-7.

But, glad you are on the mend.

jh45gun · « **Reply #25 on:** January 23, 2004, 04:44:14 AM »

Quote from: Triple Se7en

Quote
"If it does that, it is worth it. It's the first shot the has a different POI for me."

Let me clarify this discussion! It works for "every shot" because I use Lehigh as the bore protectant... keep it in when I prepare the rifle at the range... then use the Lehigh as a light swabber every 2nd shot.

If you buy some, get an empty spray bottle. I use the liquid Land O Lakes spray butter bottle. Otherwise, you waste it. I was told Ballistol works under the same principle... I'll try the Ballistol test after I recover from hip replacement surgery..... probable first range visit in late March/early April.

BTW... You are more-than-welcome to "beat me to the punch" on the Ballistol test. I'll be confined to my home for at least a month -- can't drive for two months. But I can still participate here everyday. Get used to seeing me on BP forums alot after my surgery on January 27th. I also re-contracted my Dish Network TV contract. I'm getting 150 stations & 31 no-commercial movie stations to combat my boredom at home.

What concerns me most is "not gaining weight". I no longer have my "true photo" anywhere on the net. That's not me on the left... I swear to God, Allah, Buddha... everybody associated with the here-after.

Triple 7 I never figured that pic was you.

while I am quite over weight my self that pic makes me feel skinny. :shock: I use balistol on my muzzle loaders also and noticed after I started useing the balisol the "Ring was not as pronounced. I do think that a swab with ballistol with a bit of h20 between shots completely eliminates the ring. Depends on whether your gun shoots better with a fouling shot or not. the way I have done it was shoot a few shots and do a cleaning shot. that seems to work for me. I have not have had any problems with shooting out of a clean barrel though. Jim