Author Topic: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention  (Read 1333 times)

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Offline blind ear

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This needs to be started nation wide. It is a good marker for congressmen that we don't need. How do we get it done?
 
An email that I recieved:
 
 Montanans Launch Recall of Senators Who Approved NDAA Military Detention On Christmas Day the US Senate voted 86 - 14 to pass the National Defense Authorization Act of 2011 which allows for the indefinite military detention of American citizens without charge or trial. Now, Montanans have announced the launch of recall campaigns against Senators Max Baucus and Jonathan Tester, who voted for the bill, reports Salem-News.com.

Montana is one of nine states with provisions that say that the right of recall extends to recalling members of its federal congressional delegation, pursuant to Montana Code 2-16-603, on the grounds of physical or mental lack of fitness, incompetence, violation of oath of office, official misconduct, or conviction of certain felony offenses, according to SNC.

Montana law requires grounds for recall to be stated which show conformity to the allowed grounds for recall. The draft language of the Montana petitions, "reason for recall" reads:
The Sixth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees all U.S citizens:

"a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed..."

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2011 (NDAA 2011) permanently abolishes the Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial, "for the duration of hostilities" in the War on Terror, which was defined by President George W. Bush as "task which does not end" to a joint session of Congress on September 20, 2001.

Those who voted Aye on December 15th, 2011, Bill of Rights Day, for NDAA 2011 have attempted to grant powers which cannot be granted, which violate both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

The Montana Recall Act stipulates that officials including US senators can only be recalled for physical or mental lack of fitness, incompetence, violation of the oath of office, official misconduct, or conviction of a felony offense. We the undersigned call for a recall election to be held for Senator Max S. Baucus [and Senator Jonathan Tester] and charge that he has violated his oath of office, to protect and defend the United States Constitution.
Montana residents William Crain and Stewart Rhodes are spearheading the drive, according to SNC. Mr. Crain is an artist. Mr. Rhodes is an attorney, Yale Law School graduate, and the national president of the organization Oath Keepers, who are military and law enforcement officers, both former and active duty, who vow to uphold their Oath to the US Constitution and to disobey illegal orders which constitute attacks on their fellow citizens.
 
We need to get angry and stay angry until we get this country straightened out. ear
Oath Keepers: start local
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 03:32:39 AM »
Mentioned this in the Todays News forum....seems like a good idea, I think only 23 states have recall methodolgy, though. What's interesting is the RTBA gun buffs don't really care about NDDA and other infringements on American birthrights for the most part... ::)
 
 
..TM7.

That shows a tremendous gap in thinking. The right to bear arms serves to enforce the right to lawfull arrest and a quick and speedy trial. ear
Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 03:37:29 AM »
It would seem that the NRA or such might feel a court case would better serve to defeat this law . The person detained might not go to court for a crime but if detained he could sue because his consitutional rights were taken with out due process.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 04:31:02 AM »
Quote
What's interesting is the RTBA gun buffs don't really care about NDDA and other infringements on American birthrights for the most part... ::)

I've noticed that also. Both sides of the spectrum view certain rights as inalienable but have no problem giving up others which is why there have been so many infringements in the 1st place.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline kevinsmith5

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Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 04:40:10 AM »
I've said it before, I'll say it again, the law in question has a clause that specifically states that US Citizens are exempt from the law. That is why the NRA and RTBA enthusiasts are NOT up in arms about it. This law is simply an attempt to make it clear that ACLU lawyers attempts to claim that foreign nationals arrested on US soul while planning a terrorist attack are not having their "constitutional rights" violated by being treated as prisoners of war. Any attempt to claim it nullified the sixth amendment is baseless in fact and law (as congress lacks the power to do that). Stick a fork in it folks, it's done.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 07:08:15 AM »
It seems fairly cut and dry in the laws language that it does not apply to US citizens.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 07:38:12 AM »
As for carrying ID everywhere, I see nothing in the law that requires that. You appear to be "over projecting" your personal fears into the law.
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Offline BBF

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 08:40:21 AM »
Carrying no ID in most places gets you cuffed and stuffed  'til you get it.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 08:42:30 AM »
I've yet to see a person arrested for failure to carry ID. Unless you count driving without a license, which is a whole different crime.
If he's carrying a singleshot, don't expect a warning shot!

Offline kevinsmith5

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Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 09:07:55 AM »
Apparently you guys know far more about this than the JAG officers and two immigration lawyers (both of whom are retired JAG officers) that I HAVE ALREADY ASKED. Once again your interpretation of the law is WAY off. Apparently you think the IS military is about to be deployed to the streets if the US to begin scooping up citizens left and right to an undisclosed location. I've had this debate with TM7 on other threads about the legal likelihoods and the odds of even being able to get the military to comply. This law is a genuine effort to keep ACLU lawyers from attempting to claim foreign nationals planning terrorist attacks in the US are not allowed to be treated as enemy combatants. Even if the law didn't have specific provisions excluding US citizens NO LAW PASSED BY CONGRESS SUPERSEDES THE CONSTITUTION.

The end.
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Offline NWBear

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 10:39:54 AM »
As a lawyer I once took classes from said, " The law is what a Judge says it is."
I always say "whoever has the biggest guns gets their way."
Given the above, good luck having a judge say the law doesn't apply because it conflicts with the Constitution - when you are "detained without due process"


Unfortunately history has also shown us that rights are freely given up with the best of reason and intent, only to vanish forever as the noose get tighter and tighter.  I am sure no one in post WW I Germany envisioned Hitlers ultimate regime when they slowly gave him more and more power ultimately making him the supreme law of the land - a defacto dictator BY LAW.


I am sorry to see this happen here but it may be unstoppable at this point.

Offline powderman

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 11:34:07 AM »
Carrying no ID in most places gets you cuffed and stuffed  'til you get it.

 
YEP, pretty stupid too. The only reason I can think  of NOT to carry ID would be if I was a criminal, or a terrorist. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline kevinsmith5

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As a lawyer I once took classes from said, " The law is what a Judge says it is."
I always say "whoever has the biggest guns gets their way."
Given the above, good luck having a judge say the law doesn't apply because it conflicts with the Constitution - when you are "detained without due process"


Unfortunately history has also shown us that rights are freely given up with the best of reason and intent, only to vanish forever as the noose get tighter and tighter.  I am sure no one in post WW I Germany envisioned Hitlers ultimate regime when they slowly gave him more and more power ultimately making him the supreme law of the land - a defacto dictator BY LAW.


I am sorry to see this happen here but it may be unstoppable at this point.
Are you actually trying to say judges don't rule laws unconstitutional?!? Really? The ability of the judiciary to.rule a law passed by Congress unconstitutional is basic to our system of government.....

Even if this law said what you guys think (it doesn't) the ACLU and conservative law groups would both sue over it. The fact none of these groups are up in arms should be your best clue that it doesn't do what you currently think....

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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 01:55:06 PM »
'S jist "one of those things"! Kinda like it's a felony to lie to a congressional panel conducting an investigation........unless you're Eric Holder and jist gave them "wrong information"......not the same thing at all, is it?

Look, weasel wording is what the legal system is best at.......so eventually this will be used against American citizens, and eventually lives will be disrupted/destroyed by this little bit of chicanery.......but who cares? After all...it will never happen to ME.......RIGHT?
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 11:04:49 PM »
Quote
You continue to demonstrate an utter lack of familiarity with the real world. You continue to use Waco as an example of military action against civilians no matter how often it is pointed put that the military was NOT involved. And please refrain from trying to tell me how our country's military will behave, pretty sure I have a tad bit better first hand knowledge than you and you insults to the honor of our service branches area starting to wear thin. They swear us in to defend the Constitution, not the ATF, Homeland Security, or even the Senate. If a serving officer says he'll violate it he should resign his commission. Quit spreading fear and disinformation.

 Your right, it was civilians in them there tanks.
 Your right again, they do not answere to the Chain of Command(president)
 This time you have something, they will be released if they do not follow orders.
 
 I too served, and hope most of them would not endulge in attacks on US people.
 
Lonny
 
 

Offline kevinsmith5

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Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2011, 03:23:11 AM »
There were no tanks at Waco that was a an FBI armored car equipped with a tear gas cannon. This issue has been discussed at length in another thread.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2011, 04:05:57 AM »
YES, our military, the Ntl guard, was used at waco, I remember it well. POWDERMAN.  :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2011, 04:17:41 AM »
If the government/state is giving orders they know who to put out front to begin with. Getting followers usually isn't too hard. ear
Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
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An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 09:05:09 AM »
Apparently you guys know far more about this than the JAG officers and two immigration lawyers (both of whom are retired JAG officers) that I HAVE ALREADY ASKED. Once again your interpretation of the law is WAY off. Apparently you think the IS military is about to be deployed to the streets if the US to begin scooping up citizens left and right to an undisclosed location. I've had this debate with TM7 on other threads about the legal likelihoods and the odds of even being able to get the military to comply. This law is a genuine effort to keep ACLU lawyers from attempting to claim foreign nationals planning terrorist attacks in the US are not allowed to be treated as enemy combatants. Even if the law didn't have specific provisions excluding US citizens NO LAW PASSED BY CONGRESS SUPERSEDES THE CONSTITUTION.

The end.
.
Try telling them when they're hauling you away that your Constuitutional rights are being violated... ::)   Just Wait for your turn to come up for a Supreme Ct review, too. Doesn't matter what a JAG 'thinks'--he needs to read the weasel wording..anyway he will just do what he is told to do....we have seen US military and other agents act upon US civilians before...WACO, Pensioners Rebelion, Miners Rebelion, etc., etc. Why do you think Oathkeeprers is hot on this topic, ACLU, and several decent senators,...why do you think the good people of Montana want to recall their Congressmen?...for their health?  We have already had a marine officer who frequents these forums tell you what this traitorius act means....it means if so deemed you as a citizen are fair game in the world battlefield and any bnody can bee classified an enemy combatant which is an entity without country or rights!!  ::) :o ::) . They didn't declare the USA a Battlefield for nothing since they already have enough laws, acts and ammuniton to go after an army of terrorists..  ::)
This is one slippery slope of tyranny and Constitution Cancelation...and security states never contract...just get worse as they make citizens more and more compliant and paranoid...
 
..TM7

You continue to demonstrate an utter lack of familiarity with the real world. You continue to use Waco as an example of military action against civilians no matter how often it is pointed put that the military was NOT involved. And please refrain from trying to tell me how our country's military will behave, pretty sure I have a tad bit better first hand knowledge than you and you insults to the honor of our service branches area starting to wear thin. They swear us in to defend the Constitution, not the ATF, Homeland Security, or even the Senate. If a serving officer says he'll violate it he should resign his commission. Quit spreading fear and disinformation.
.
Kudos to the free people of Montana....who happen to dispell naivete!! Bravo!!   I tend to agree with Judge Napalitano over your JAG friend on this issue. And I didn't continue to use WACO for anything, except to say the military will be used and has been used against US citizens before; and this NDAA normalizes the use of military, ON THE BATTLEFIELD, against anybody--citizen or non-citizen  Why even weasel word a mention of employing the military or other minutia of this NDAA against US citizens in the first place..? Because,,,it is not required,  but it is allowed....meaning to be normalized.
.
But if you want to dwell on WACO let's take a closer look at that deal, maybe you might get the idea:.....

.
.Let's start by dispelling a myth you're propagating. Here is the list of US military personnel and equipment that the US Justice Department admits were used at Mt. Carmel: "Military Personnel and Equipment - Personnel Active Duty Personnel - 15 Texas National Guard Personnel - 13 - Track vehicles Bradley fighting vehicle (OMZ) - 9 Combat Engineer Vehicle (M728) - 5 Tank Retrieval vehicle (M88) - 1 Abrams Tanks (M1A1) - 2 Source: Department of the Treasury, Report of the Department of the Treasury on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Investigation of Vernon Wayne Howell also known as David Koresh, U.S. Government Printing Office, September 1993 If you'd like to see a photocopy of the original document,
.
    No military commander "lends" 17 pieces of armor and 15 active service personnel under his command to anybody, let alone the FBI or any other law enforcement agency, willingly. The principle is very simple: my men, my arms, my show. In a lawful operation, the command structure would have been publicly announced, but since the involvement of the military in Waco was entirely illegal and indefensible, it was necessary to paint the situation as an FBI operation.
.
The obviously substantial presence of US military equipment used in the operation was dismissed as being equivalent to a "rent a car" service.   The operation required mustering approximately a hundred agents (flown in from sites around the country), and who ***received military training*** at Ft. Hood. They traveled in a convoy of sixty vehicles and were supported by three National Guard helicopters and one fixed-wing aircraft, ***with armored vehicles in reserve***."
.
It is conceded that General Wesley Clark, Clinton's friernd, was the lead commander for this Yugoslavian-Kosovo type assault, and that practice with FBI, ATF, etc. took place at Ft Hood..
.
.Kudos to the the free people of Montana against freedom robbing gov loyalist....Security states never contract--only expand....
.
......TM7
care to produce the source for that list? Since the retired FBI agent who served in Viet Nam with my father (who was on the Bureau's investigative panel) and the official report all say the equipment was either FBi or Texas Ranger issue. And please provide a citation for Napalitano supporting you.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 01:12:19 PM »
Most folks are too chicken to use the 2nd amendent, so that makes the rest of the constitution useless.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2012, 04:33:01 AM »
Was this a vote of record that can be obtained and posted? We need to know who voted for the bill  to take any specific action. If not available we need to adress our senators rather than sit silent. ear
Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
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Offline SwampThing762

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Offline powderman

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Re: Montana starting recall on senators that voted for NDDA military detention
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2012, 03:54:25 PM »
I'm surprised our Mcconnel voted for it. Time for him to go. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm