Author Topic: Any problems with the aluminum scope bases and hard kickers? (Read 1558 times)

PPosey · « **on:** January 11, 2012, 04:21:55 AM »

Need some scope bases for my 3 new Handi rifles, .223, 7mm-08, and a 45-70 I am having converted to a Mloader by SMI, not worried about the first 2 with an aluminum base but I have had problems with aluminum bases and a hard kicker before and the 45/70 turned .45 Mloader will be a hard kicker. Anybody using an aluminum base with a thumper round,,, I prefer Burris sig Z rings,,,

Can't find the H&R base at MidwayUSA,,, they have the Leupold Rifleman, weaver, and Ironsighter all aluminum and the warne maxima steel base, of the aluminum bases which is the best fit for the .223 and 7mm-08? The Ironsighter looks a little beefier?

I've read all the stickies and searched, just looking for more info to save a headache.

keith44 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2012, 06:08:51 AM »

I've never had a problem with any one piece scope base on any rifle or pistol chambered for anything that kicks less than a 300 Weatherby AI. When you get up around the Weatherby level and beyond you must use steel bases. Other than that aluminum seems fine on the .308's and lighter kicking calibers.

catncarp · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2012, 08:04:12 AM »

I have been using the Weaver quad lock and they are great

Slufoot · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2012, 08:14:23 AM »

Hey PPosey,
I've had the H&R base on my 45-70 that I converted to ML for several years and serveral hundred shots whithout any problems whatsoever. I have a set of Leupold QRW rings that have a good square recoil key, I believe this helps to keep from distorting the aluminum base versus a ring with just a round screw that's used for a recoil key.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2012, 08:36:07 AM »

Pposey, of those you've mentioned, the bases that have full cross support like the Ironsighter and Warne will provide the best strength, some have had problems with the base screws shearing on the 500S&W and slug guns, but I've not had that issue on my 500 with ~200 rounds of full pressure 350-700gr loads, scope weight and how the base is mounted make a big difference, bed the base in Loctite per the FAQs and you shouldn't have any problems with the base itself, use good steel rings like Burris Zees and you'll be happy.

Unfortunately the Leupold PRW rings aren't as bullet proof as you'd think when used on an H&R base or other base that doesn't provide full support to the recoil lugs, I've got a few pairs in use, those on my 500S&W are showing the same weakness as CW's, I've also got a bunch a rifles, probably 30 or so, with Burris Zee and Signature Zee rings without any problems.

Tim

Leupold PRW FAILURE!!

demented · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2012, 09:03:56 PM »

I have seen a set of aluminum bases with the cross slots peened after some time on a friends .45-70. No idea about what brand rings were used. I'm using an Ironsighter base, it has worked much better than factory did...for me YMMV

PPosey · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:09:09 AM »

Thanks guys, I'm thinking the Ironsighter or weaver base for the .223 and 7mm-08 and the warne steel for the 45/70,,, my savage mls both had issues with aluminum bases, Even the Burris Z rings would move some after several full house loads.

Slufoot · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:15:45 AM »

Hey PPosey,
I'd stay away from the Weaver brand base for the Handi, unless you just want to cut an extra slot in it and/or use extension rings with it.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

PPosey · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:50:01 AM »

OK, what about the leupold base? It sounds like it's pretty well made,

"precision-machined from aircraft-grade aluminum "

Monteria · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2012, 03:12:24 AM »

Quote from: Slufoot on January 12, 2012, 02:15:45 AM

Hey PPosey,
I'd stay away from the Weaver brand base for the Handi, unless you just want to cut an extra slot in it and/or use extension rings with it.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

That depends on your objective and which scope you intend to use. All except 2 of my Handi's are equipped with a Weaver 82 base and longer eye relief scope (Nikon Omega 1.65-5 in most cases now), specifically so that I can mount the ocular bell low and in front of the hammer (yes, that does require cutting a new cross slot... Farther forward).

Incidentally, I also use Leopold PRW low rings. And yes, CW opened my eyes to the potential for failure, but my hardest kicking load is trap door 45-70s, so I am not concerned.

Steve

Slufoot · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2012, 03:59:43 AM »

The only issue I had with the Leupold Rifleman base for the H&R was that it was a little more narrow and I had to remove some material from a set of Weaver Quad-Lock rings to get them to clamp properly.
I have a Rifleman base on a 30-06 Handi with a set of Rifleman rings and it has worked very well.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Quote from: PPosey on January 12, 2012, 02:50:01 AM

OK, what about the leupold base? It sounds like it's pretty well made,

"precision-machined from aircraft-grade aluminum "

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2012, 05:09:46 AM »

Quote from: PPosey on January 12, 2012, 02:50:01 AM

OK, what about the leupold base? It sounds like it's pretty well made,

"precision-machined from aircraft-grade aluminum "

I've got about over a dozen Leupold bases on Handis, they work fine, Optics Planet sells em for $7 each, 6 of em ship free, that's how I buy em.

Tim

PPosey · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2012, 05:34:37 AM »

And I thought buying 3 Handi's was buying in bulk!

"I've got about over a dozen Leupold bases on Handis, they work fine, Optics Planet sells em for $7 each, 6 of em ship free, that's how I buy em.

Tim"

cwlongshot · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2012, 07:00:26 AM »

I have had a couple ring failures with Alum alloy rings. I don't buy them any longer. I prefer a steel base too but have NOT had a failure at the base. I once had a weaver ring split its base. Then twice one of the cheap clam shell rings stripped out on me.

In the thread Tim linked the base had a contributing factor in the rings failure but it was the ring that failed. I do not think it would have if the base offered complete support like some of the bases do.

Like anything buy the best you can afford. We do what we do here for enjoyment. Why buy sub par equiptment. It WILL take away from the enjoyment.

I cannot in good faith recommend the PRW. It's a good looking ring and with a better recoil shoulder could be a top ring. I now prefer the Warne and as always Burris ZEE rings. Truth be told they will likely be completely fine as the recoil of my 500 was substantial pushing 500g bullets to almost 1800fps. The scope was fine and did not move in the rings it bent the recoil block in the ring. The base was totally undamaged.

CW

flinthead · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2012, 02:24:19 AM »

If you are willing to pay not to worry, then by the Warne Maxima steel base and rings. I put a little blue loc-tite on the base screws, lock them down, and forget about it. They will be there as long as you own the gun with no worries!!

bikerbeans · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2012, 03:18:43 AM »

Quote from: PPosey on January 12, 2012, 02:50:01 AM

OK, what about the leupold base? It sounds like it's pretty well made,

"precision-machined from aircraft-grade aluminum "

pposey,
I have a the leupold base on my 32" BC which has been reamed to 45-120. I shoot 300 to 350 grain jacketed bullets well above 2,500 fps and have had no problems with the base after several hundred rounds.

BB

cwlongshot · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2012, 05:57:08 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on January 14, 2012, 03:18:43 AM

pposey,
I have a the leupold base on my 32" BC which has been reamed to 45-120. I shoot 300 to 350 grain jacketed bullets well above 2,500 fps and have had no problems with the base after several hundred rounds.

BB

BB ,

OUCH ....

At times my own heavy 350 Hornady RN 45-70 loading leaves that funny taste in my mouth... I can only imagion a 350g at 2500...

I have had the "pleasure" of firing many of the African calibers and most really where not that bad. Heavy pushes. BUT the stocks are much better designed to keep you on target for a second shot also making that recoil manageable. I did not like a 378 Weatherby from a Ruger #1. A 460 weatherby and the 600 overkill where also standouts... But something all these had was a good pad and good ergonomicaly correct stock for recoil. NIETHER of which can be said for the BC H&R....

That BC must be a hand full with those loads!! Fun times I am sure!!!

CW

gendoc · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2012, 06:11:22 AM »

i have had good luck with tha stock h&r base, even tha numrich shorty base.
i have them on many of my big'uns... 45/120,45/70,.460,casull, 35whelen, and 06
all the rest of them 27 have either ones or tha 82 weaver...thats all i use

never hada movement or failure. some are top ceil'n loads. but as most know, hot loads ain't everthang......no !!

epanzella · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:21:49 AM »

pposey,
I had some rounding over problems with aluminum bases/rings on my 45-70 with hot loads. I cured it by doing two things. First was to go to rings with square cross bolts for full engagement with the slots. Second was to put the rings on the bases semi tight, and then make sure they were buth pulled forward to solidly engage the front of the base slots before tightening the crossbolts and mounting the scope into the rings. This took out all play in the slots and insured that both rings were sharing the recoil load evenly. This cured my rounding over problem 100%.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2012, 08:36:17 AM »

cw,

BC furniture is long gone. Replaced with a laminated, checked pistol grip set, stock bolt channel full of #6 lead shot with the factory recoil pad. I did load some 525 grain postells to almost 2,000 fps, I needed a limbsaver slipon pad over the factory one for those slugs.

Almost forgot, in warm weather with just a tee shirt on, I also use a Past magnum recoil pad on my shoulder. The point of all the recoil protection is because I am on a high dose of blood thinners, which is why the BC set is long gone (almost ended up in the hospital with an internal bleeder after shooting trapdoor loads with that steel butt plate and only wearing a "t" shirt).

BB

cwlongshot · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2012, 08:56:53 AM »

Not funny and I sympathize!!! As soon as doc cleared me (my heart attack) headed to the range with the 500S&W and my 500g Hornadys at a chrongraphed 1800 fps. Two shots and I felt funny... Back in the case it went!!!!

That BC of yours must be close to 11-12#! That tames recoil quickly!

CW

twoshooter · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2012, 11:24:32 AM »

Tsk Tsk Tsk.....I keep tellin' you guys...... some people just have a much gentler sloped learning curve! 440 gr Lee, 21 gr of Blue Dot, completely through both shoulders of that 10 pointer, and 16" into the ground. SOOO....... your load goes 46" into the ground....

. Do we all feel better now??

After my shot, the deer felt funny.... shortly before he joined his ancestors in that great acorn patch in the sky.

The meatloaf last night was terrific!!

MY 500 is a sweetie.

Dinny · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2012, 02:28:40 PM »

I'm not too worried about recoil and the aluminum scope bases. But then again, I have them and the receiver modified for 8-40 screws.

Thanks, Dinny

hoytcanon · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:52:07 AM »

We've switched out all of the factory bases with DNZ GameReaper one-piece mounts... love them, very tight and solid... I don't see these ever failing.

Slufoot · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2012, 12:25:43 PM »

Quote from: epanzella on January 14, 2012, 07:21:49 AM

pposey,
I had some rounding over problems with aluminum bases/rings on my 45-70 with hot loads. I cured it by doing two things. First was to go to rings with square cross bolts for full engagement with the slots. Second was to put the rings on the bases semi tight, and then make sure they were buth pulled forward to solidly engage the front of the base slots before tightening the crossbolts and mounting the scope into the rings. This took out all play in the slots and insured that both rings were sharing the recoil load evenly. This cured my rounding over problem 100%.

Very, very good point! I always do this and just took it for granted. Never thought to point it out.
Excellent advice epanzella.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Sourdough · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2012, 12:26:58 PM »

I've never had a base problem on a Handi. In my openion recoil on Handi's are not enough to cause a problem with reguler scopes. Bushnell, Nikon, Pentax, Cabela's Tactical, and the Cabela's Big Game scopes. At one time I had a Shepard scope on my 30-06 with no problems except a thief.

Now I have had ring problems, but I think the problem was that scopes are not always consistant in their outside dimentions. Some seem to be slicker than others therefore harder to hold in place as well.

Now if you go with a scope like the Night Force (weight 2#) then there definately will be a problem. This is a love hate relationship.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2012, 03:07:26 PM »

Quote from: hoytcanon on January 16, 2012, 10:52:07 AM

We've switched out all of the factory bases with DNZ GameReaper one-piece mounts... love them, very tight and solid... I don't see these ever failing.

WELCOME!!!

I agree, the DNZ mounts are very well made and sturdy! I doubt we will see any problems form them!!

If they would only make a LOWER version I would have more of them!!

CW