Author Topic: I'm just going tosay it...  (Read 1338 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dinger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 67
  • Gender: Male
I'm just going tosay it...
« on: October 03, 2011, 04:38:11 PM »
Anyone try TrailBoss in a c/b revolver? Oh boy, well I said it. dinger

Offline AtlLaw

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (58)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6405
  • Gender: Male
  • A good woman, nice bike and fine guns!
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 06:35:04 PM »
Now you done gone and done it!   :o   You better duck boy!   ;D
 
Darn good question though...  :-\   I'd never do it mind you, but maybe someone who can compare TB & BP and say 777's pressure curves, peak pressure, pressure spikes and such will tell us why it's a bad idea.   ???
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
Support your local US Military Vets Motorcycle Club

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 07:55:04 AM »
I wouldn't try it. Trail Boss is a rather fast burning powder, on the charts it falls between Bullseye and Unique. The real issue is not pressure but Brisiance, or "shattering effect". As an example or analogy, ignite a pound of blackpowder under a rock and the rock will be blown into the air but will come down in one piece. Detonate a few drops of nitroglycerin under the rock and it will be shattered to bits, even though the total energy of the nitro may be less than that of the black. Smokeless, especially fast burning smokeless, has much greater brisiance than BP.
 Adding to that issue is the fact that you have no way to know what sort of pressures you are running. You have no cartridge case to examine. No "sticky extraction", no "cratered primers" no measure of case head expansion, no way at all to judge if your load is safe, borderline or way over the line.
 BP is absolutely predictable. Increase or decrease the charge and you will get a roughly proportional increase or decrease in pressure and ballistics. Smokeless is touchy, a small increase in the charge can make a very great increase in chamber pressure. Reduce a smokeless load and it may not produce enough pressure to burn properly and you get a "blooper".
 If you want to shoot smokeless from your revolver get a cartridge gun and loading manual.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline AtlLaw

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (58)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6405
  • Gender: Male
  • A good woman, nice bike and fine guns!
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 08:16:55 AM »
SEE!  I told you!   ;D
 
Now that's good stuff right there!  Thanks Joe!
 
Now I got to start researching that Brisance thing...  :-\  I thought it was a type of soft cheese...  ???
 
"Brisance is the term describing shattering or shock. The measurement is made by comparing the effect of TNT to the effect of the explosive in question. TNT has been given an arbitrary value 100 for plate dent test."
 
Hummmm...  That would lead me to believe there must be a chart of Brisance values for at least the more common explosives (propellants?).  :-\  Something like a burn rate chart...
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
Support your local US Military Vets Motorcycle Club

Offline dinger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 67
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 03:58:25 PM »
All right, coyotejoe.


I just knew somebody here had a good explanation for why this isn't a good idea. I'm with atlaw. Brisance you say. Hmmm.

Offline Gatofeo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 04:06:17 PM »
I wouldn't try it. Trail Boss is a rather fast burning powder, on the charts it falls between Bullseye and Unique. The real issue is not pressure but Brisiance, or "shattering effect". As an example or analogy, ignite a pound of blackpowder under a rock and the rock will be blown into the air but will come down in one piece. Detonate a few drops of nitroglycerin under the rock and it will be shattered to bits, even though the total energy of the nitro may be less than that of the black. Smokeless, especially fast burning smokeless, has much greater brisiance than BP.
 Adding to that issue is the fact that you have no way to know what sort of pressures you are running. You have no cartridge case to examine. No "sticky extraction", no "cratered primers" no measure of case head expansion, no way at all to judge if your load is safe, borderline or way over the line.
 BP is absolutely predictable. Increase or decrease the charge and you will get a roughly proportional increase or decrease in pressure and ballistics. Smokeless is touchy, a small increase in the charge can make a very great increase in chamber pressure. Reduce a smokeless load and it may not produce enough pressure to burn properly and you get a "blooper".
 If you want to shoot smokeless from your revolver get a cartridge gun and loading manual.

At last, a man of uncommonly good sense. Well written, easily understood, logical. I cast a Chesire grin in your direction!
 
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline ironball

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 118
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 07:54:49 PM »
There is only one safe way that I know of to shoot smokeless powder in a cap and ball revolver. Buy a cartridge conversion cylinder, and shoot light cowboy type loads in it. I still wouldn't do it in a brass frame gun, though. It's safe enough, but will shoot the gun loose pretty quickly.
Never let the people with all the money and the people with all the guns be the same people.

Offline sidewinder319

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 634
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 08:09:19 PM »
Coyote Joe a very good post well done. :)

Offline Flint

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
Re: I'm just going tosay it...
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 03:07:38 PM »
The other thing you don't want is a smokeless load in front of an open nipple...  The cap recoil can recock the hammer and fill your face with particles, if not parts.
Many years ago, in the early 60's, I know, when I was young and foolish I duplexed a load of black powder and 2400 in a Zouave rifle.  It recocked the hammer, and that rifle has a mainspring you could use in your car's suspension...
Flint, SASS 976, NRA Life