Lee Factory Crimp Die?

[flmason]

Hi All,
    Anyone know how exactly the Lee Factory Crimp differs from say a hard roll crimp? They claim it makes powder differences less relevant and improves accuracy. Anyone know if there's any truth to that? Can or should it be paired with say their other thing, the collet die?

Granted, with care, I expect even the Lee Loader to make just fine rounds. But curious, none the less.

[Dand]

I'll start out by saying I use them for 30-30, 348, 357/38 and 41 mag. maybe more - can't remember. I like them.  They are a collet operation that squeezes the case to the bullet - somewhat different than the shoulder in a roll crimp die that tends to jam the case mouth into the bullet.  The factory crimp dies are adjustable and not so picky as to the case length/ trimming - something I like with the handgun calibers and it can be more uniform because of the squeeze down system  on varied neck lengths - to a degree.



I'm not sure I'd believe or agree that powder differences don't matter so much with the FC die - does Lee really say that?


I think the accuracy thing was hotly debated in the past and in some cases its true - others hard to know.


You might want to search this reloading forum for Lee Factory Crimp as it has been discussed quite a bit over the years.  I got my first one when I wanted to load some uncannelured bullets in my 348 and Hawk bullets recommended the dies.  Speer got into a fuss w Lee and claimed the FC might be bad for their bullets and for a while I think they had a warranty void disclaimer if you used the Lee FC.  Speer got over it finally and we haven't seen much of that issue since. I like the uniformity in my max loads in 41 mag and strong crimps in my 348 without collapsing case shoulders.

[Grumulkin]

If you need to crimp, I don't think there is a better way than the Lee Factory Crimp Die.  For some cartridges I load, I found it impossible to get a crimp that would keep the bullets from moving under recoil without collapsing the case with anything other than that die.  I believe it sometimes improves accuracy but not the majority of the time.


After loading for a couple of cartridges in which Lee Collet Dies gave worse accuracy than other dies, I don't use them much any more.

[GH1]

 It's my understanding that a FCD is better suited to bullets without a crimp groove. If you're shooting cast bullets you're better off with a roll crimp.
 Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can prove or disprove this.
GH1

[ButlerFord45]

Rifle FCD's that I have use a collet to crimp and I think they are great.   The pistol ammo that headspaces off of the case mouth, I have no idea what type of crimp the FCD uses.  Revolver type bullets, 38/357, 44 and 45 use a roll crimp and a carbide sizing die in the mouth of the die.  I don't like them and will not use them again.  They can resize your cast bullets to negate everything you have done to make it work in your firearm.

[drdougrx]

I use the FCD on many of the cartridges that I reload....I think it helps.  I do find that I don't put such a "hard" crimp though...just a bit of addnl tension.  I THINK it helps with concentricity a bit as well.

[cwlongshot]

I consider it a cure to a non existant problem...

I have never had issue with the crimp provided in my Lyman, RCBS, Redding and Foster dies... Bullet retension is more than just the crimp, too large an expander ball will start you out will a loose fit. Expecting the crimp alone to fix this is not so good...
 
CW

[OLDHandgunner]

I'll admit that I have only been using the Lee Factory Crimp dies ( 30-30 & 35 Rem.) for a few year. Always did it the old fashion way with my RCBS dies. Seat the bullet first, then back out the seater and crimp the bullet.
 
The Lee FCD does a super job. When I first bought my Rem 7600 in 35 carbine I didn't crimp the shells ( clip feed ).
They shot great, nice groups. This past year I needed more shells loaded and decided to crimp some with the Lee FCD and see if the group size would change or not. To my surprise it shrunk in half. WOW. My carbine will now shoot groups 1" and under with these 180gr Speer over H4895. Not bad for a brush buster.
 
 

[ButlerFord45]

CW, I disagree and then agree:  The circumstances may or may not cause the need for a good crimp.  Most one-hole shooting is done without a crimp at all but the ammo that is carried in the truck or packed into the mountains for elk can benifit from a propper crimp.  It affects the burn of some powders, it allows for the rougher treatment of the ammunition without changing the overall lenght.  I do agree that there is much more to bullet retention than a crimp.  I guess my problem is with the use of seating/crimp dies and trying to do both with one stroke of the press.  When doing both at once the forces acting on the bullet and case are going to be downward as well as in toward the bullet.  This WILL expand the case neck to some degree and there goes your wonderful neck tention.  This effect can be minimumized by making it a two step process, seat then crimp.
In my opinion the Lee FCD for revolver cartridges (it is a roll crimp) does more harm than any problems it might solve(again agree).  I do have a Redding crimp die that doesn't really size the case but does seem to support it while the crimp is being applied.  Works well in hard use lever rifles.
BF
 

I consider it a cure to a non existant problem...

I have never had issue with the crimp provided in my Lyman, RCBS, Redding and Foster dies... Bullet retension is more than just the crimp, too large an expander ball will start you out will a loose fit. Expecting the crimp alone to fix this is not so good...
 
CW

[cwlongshot]

BF,
Roger copy the reasons for crimping. (I been at this for some time too  ) Seating a bullet in a single process is poor application. Crimping should be done after seating, and then only as much as needed and when necessary. As you point out, attempting both at the same time is defeatist. (Been there done that) Seating and crimping, just like re-sizing and priming are totally separate steps in the process.
The Redding die is a very good one, but again, the crimping offered with the seating die (Done separately) is just fine and has been just fine since one was engineered into the seating die...
 
Proper crimps or lack there of are not the real problem, correct application, IE when to, why to and how much of said crimp is the real issue at hand. The FCD is a gimmick, its something LEE to take your $$ to do something you already have the ability to do. It's NO easier, I agree no harder, but IMHO serves no purpose. EVERYTHING I have ever needed to crimp a bullet has been accomplished with with the dies I have on the shelf.
 
If you like one and it works for you, good, enjoy it. I am simply pointing out, its not required and far from the end all of bullet crimping. 
 
CW
 

[Dave in WV]

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[Dave in WV]

The Lee factory crimp die can crimp for bullets with or without a cannelure. It is limited as to how much crimp it can produce and is more like a taper crimp. The die uses four "petals" that are squeezed against the brass. I had one made for my 350 mag and it was a custom made die and for $30 incl. shipping that's a bargain to me. I have a Reddng 3 die set so I have the ability to roll crimp or use the Lee die.

[tacklebury]

I own one for every single caliber I load that they make one for.  Especially, the taper crimp version on rimless rounds like .45 acp, 9mm  and 40 S&W.  I could never get consistent lock-up with .45 acp loads using the size bullets my gun likes without the FCD.  Now I never have a fluke, missed sized shell or inconsistency in seating in my .45 acp blackhawk cylinder or my .45 EAA Tanfoglio Match Witness or my buddy's Kimber.  I really find that consistency can sometimes be obtained without the crimp, but if you shoot ANY revolver with uncrimped shells, be prepared to get poor accuracy and with hard kicking loads as the bullets from other chambers move slightly.  I am very cautious with using these on leads not to over tighten the dies though, which can cause the bullets to undersize if you adjust the crimp too tight on roll crimp rounds like the .45 colt. 

[Grumulkin]

The FCD works fine with jacketed as well as cast bullets and they can be with or without a cannelure.


The FCD die will tighten loose bullets.


The only instance in which I can say the FCD die improved accuracy for me was with low pressure 45 Colt loads.


There are some cartridges and loads in which bullets in the magazine or cylinder will move under recoil without a very strong crimp.  In fact, the crimp has to be so strong that standard roll crimping procedures will collapse the case before an adequate crimp is achieved.  The Lee FCD die is up to achieving such a crimp.  For those of you who don't believe this, I'm thinking you've never rolled full house 460 S&W Magnum or 378 Weatherby Magnum loads.