compressed loads

[Flashole]

I was wondering if a heavily compressed load would cause any concerns in regards to pressure.  What I'm  talking about is a load using a very large cast bullet and the load data from that manufacture.
 
  This combonation works well in one of my guns and is a compressed load.  The new gun in the same caliber has a shorter chamber / throat.  Using the same load and bullet requires enough pressure on the press that I'm asking this question.  I know I could back off the load a bit or in large the throat.  If it makes any difference this is a  444 marlin load
 
 
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[anachronism]

I offer you a firm, unconditional... maybe. Some powders require compression, and some have ignition problems with compressed loads. It all depends on the particular dynamics of that load. Most 444 Marlin loads are compressed, IIRC.

[keith44]

Some of the early 458 Win Mag loadings from the factory were heavily compressed, and suffered ignition problems.  Bad situation for what is supposed to be a dangerous game rifle.  Some of my .45-70 loads are heavily compressed black powder.  The only problem I have noticed with them is they tend to try to uncompress over a few days time.  The powder will actually push the 500 grain bullet up about .005".  Since I am shooting a single shot, and the load density is still 100% it is not an issue for me.  Make sure you are well crimped, and that the powder is not pushing the bullet out at all and it should be ok.

[twoshooter]

Since it is a different gun I would not assume that the same load is the best for the new gun. Some compression is not a problem , but if I had to crimp heavy to keep the bullet from backing out I would just get a different load. Having one lengthen to where it might touch the lands could cause a real problem.

[LanceR]

I suspect that the best place to ask this question would be to the manufacturers of the powder and bullet.

Lance

[cwlongshot]

I thing the larger issue is your assuming a load worked up in one rifle chamber will be safe in another!!! To make matters worse it now sounds like you are attempting to furer refuse powder capacity as you KNOW the new rifle has a shorter throat?!?!?

IMHO, Keep the loading you have worked up with the rifle you worked it up in. Start over with the new gun!!!!

CW

[keith44]

I thing the larger issue is your assuming a load worked up in one rifle chamber will be safe in another!!! To make matters worse it now sounds like you are attempting to furer refuse powder capacity as you KNOW the new rifle has a shorter throat?!?!?

IMHO, Keep the loading you have worked up with the rifle you worked it up in. Start over with the new gun!!!!

CW

+1

I missed the part of their being two guns involved, somehow.  Yes please start load development for the new gun at the starting loads.  The smaller area will cause higher pressures.

[Flashole]

I was not assuming anything.  I was stating that the load that I'm trying to get to with this gun has been established by the bullet manufacture and works in one of my rifles.  Not some thing I'm trying on my own.  In my lever gun it is a very tight squeeze.  So tight that there was a pretty noticeable in print on the bullet  from the die.  When I contacted the manufacture he suggested I reshape the end of my seating die.
 
I have started over and working loads for every heavy 44 bullet on my bench. So far this brand of bullet at 325gr with two for the charges form the manufacture works with out any issue I can detect and I did not just throw a max load in at first.
 
I have no real need to see if I can get the 2,000 plus fps out of a 335 gr bullet, as stated by the bullet maker. This is a new single shot rifle that is not very popular.  There seems to be almost no feed back as to what this rifle is capable of doing.  If there was a little more room to seat the bullet I would not be asking for advise.
 
If an email from the bullet maker tells me to change the shape of my die.  At that point I'm assuming heavily compressed loads can be  safe to some degree.  I just have no clue how far I can go.  I may dismantle what I have and stick with the shorter bullets.   My next question would be the difficulty in making the chamber a little longer.  Looks like this is s common practice on the handi board.
 
Thanks for your feed back
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[cwlongshot]

I was wondering if a heavily compressed load would cause any concerns in regards to pressure.

  This combonation works well in one of my guns and is a compressed load.  The new gun in the same caliber has a shorter chamber / throat.  Using the same load
 
 
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I miss under stood what you wrote... But if you go back and re read your post ( I bolded the parts that are waving danger flags) you will see how I arrived at that understanding.

The fact remains data no matter the source should not be taken as gospel. Loading Manuel's list powders and starting loads. Most powders are suggested to be refused 10% to start then work up. You may well find you can go above suggested max. If you know what your looking at for hi pressure signs you can do so safely. But these top loadings are only safe in your gun, at your elevation, at that temperature ( some powders) also consider powder and primer lots. Another big one is seating depth as it directly changes powder space.
If you know all this (we do not know) but you did ask the question, so it's assumed you do not, I opologise.

Compressed loads are not dangerous in and of themselves. Some powders really respond well to it. Most rifle powders are most efficient at or slightly over 100% density. If your loads are so compressed as to be deforming a bullet, I would look for a lower charge or a different powder. Straight cases are more difficult to compress. I have similar issues with RL7 in my 375win with 250g bullets.


Opening up the throat of a chamber is easy enough. I did it on my 38-55 to accept larger lead slugs...

The "tone" of your reply sounds irritated, no insult intended. Unfortunately you cannot choose the responses you get, only the ones you will listen too.

CW

[bikerbeans]

flashole,
 
Check on the 4D reamer website and see if they have a 44 Cal rifle throat reamer for rent.  IIRC, their 45 cal rifle throat reamer has been used by several Handi owners to allow a longer OAL on the 45-70.
FWIW, I have loaded a lot of 444M in a Handi with the cast bullet in the rifling.  I worked up very slowly using slower rifle powders that the manufacturer has published compressed load data for the 444M.  Since this is a single shot and the bullet is in the rifing I do not crimp the load.   The final seating of the bullet/powder compression occurs when the round is chambered and the gun is closed.  Since in effect you are using the action of the gun as a seating die/press there is a limit to the amount of compression before the gun will not lock up properly.  In my case it is about .02".   
 
BB

[Flashole]

CW BB  I see your comments all over this web site.  I appreciate and value the input of your knowledge.   I was using a Hornady die when I was tyring to work up this bullet in my 94.  I used my RCBS 44 or 445 and it set the bullet with out any damage.  My CVA is a different story.  The RL 7 and H322 were the least resistant,  2015 was a real push and H335 and Varget were out of the question. I know I can always slow this bullet down and it may turn out well. For the time being I think I will  just set these larger slugs aside for now.  I don't get to hunt much and my fun mostly come at the range.
 
Most of the time I try to proof read my post as not to be misunderstood.  I have also made the mistake early in my reloading days of using a really over charged load.  I was using a Friends bench and his shooting range.  This load had every sign of being way to hot.  My friend had many years of reloading behind him.  It almost cost me a very nice 300 BDL.   I learned that day the difference between ignorant and stupid.  Today I was defending my ignorance.
 
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