Author Topic: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.  (Read 532 times)

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Offline powderman

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Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« on: January 14, 2012, 03:38:02 AM »
Tricky transfer awaits tanker in Nome   Associated Press Posted on January 14, 2012 at 7:01 AM
Updated today at 9:30 AM        ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — A delicate ice dance is about to take place off frozen-in Nome Alaska where a Russian tanker is preparing to pump more than a million gallons of much-needed diesel and gasoline.
But in order to do that safely, the tanker must position itself near enough to the iced-in harbor to send that cargo through a mile-long hose.
A Coast Guard ice-breaker that helped guide the ship through Bering Sea ice can't get too close to shore because it's too shallow. So the trick is to place the tanker Renda in a spot where it can pump fuel and the ice-breaker can get it loose later.
A fall storm prevented Nome from getting a final fuel delivery by barge in November. There won't be another barge until spring and without the tanker delivery, Nome will run out of fuel.
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 12:38:15 PM »
Once the tanker is in place they have to let it freeze in place to stabilize it.  Then the pressure ridge in the ice has to be flattened, and the ice leveled out all the way to shore so the hose will lay flat.  A patrol will have to walk the line every 30 minutes during the off loading operation.  In the cold and wind it will take 30 minutes to walk that distance.  If it drops below 40 below, they can not make the entire trip safely, and will have to be relieved half way.

It's 45 below here this morning, expecting 50 below tonight.  At 50 below you can only stay out for 15 minutes.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 01:24:38 PM »
ROG. Do you think the fuel has made it in time and will one delivery get them through the winter?? POWDERMAN.  ??? ???
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline ceadersavage2

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 05:32:15 PM »
Guys Wish them luck there I surely do  they need it

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 08:08:51 PM »
Once the fuel is delivered they will be fine.  Right had enough fuel to last thru February.  But with the colder than normal temps they are really sucking down the fuel oil.  have not seen the weather today, don't know what the temps is at Nome.  Here in North Pole, it's 50 below in my front yard right now.  Sky and nI went out and loaded a sled with fire wood and dragged it to the front door.  Now all I have to do is open the door and grab a few sticks as needed.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 09:36:33 AM »
I haven't been following this story at all. Wish them the best, of course. But I heard on the radio while driving today that the ship was there and they had fuel for them and that it would be delivered in a tricky operation. However, they also said that the next fuel delivery would ordinarily have been in late May or early June. How did this happen in the first place? That's six months away. Surely there was either a great and improbable miscalculation or there was some kind of previous event that prevented the winter fuel from being delivered earlier.

Then there's the problem of making another delivery in February. If this delivery was hard, wouldn't that delivery be much more difficult? Nome can't be that big a place. Has there been any talk of evacuation?

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 10:58:53 AM »
Nome was scheduled for fuel delivery by fuel barge last October.  A massive winter storm hit in October and prevented the barge from being able to make it to Nome.  So they decided to have fuel delivered by tanker.  Tanker had problems with rules about transporting fuel from foriegn countries, and had to wait till it could get the gasoline in I believe Dutch Harbor.  Then the ice had moved farther south than normal.  So a Coast Guard Ice Breaker came in to break trail.  Ice breaker encountered heavier (thicker) ice than expected, and the ice kept closing up behind the Breaker, trapping the tanker.  What was expected to take a couple of days turned into a couple of weeks.  Meantime more storms are hitting Nome and the temps are much colder than normal.  Their estimates were that they had enough to last till March, but the earliest barge shipment could not get there till ice out, usually in May or June.  Weather can be pretty cold and nasty in April and May.  But with the colder than normal temps, they are using fuel oil pretty fast to heat and light their homes and buildings.  Fuel oil is used to produce electricity also.  Some estimates were that they could run out as early as the end of February.

The alternative was to have fuel oil air lifted to Nome.  Nome also supplies villages farther inland.  Kobuk and Noatak have already ran out of fuel oil.  The residents are tearing down their fish drying racks to burn for heat.  they are out scouring the country side for fuel to burn.  There is no big trees that far north to cut and burn.  Just brush size trees.

Actually an example of governmental screw-up.  The government comes in and builds them homes, to get them out of the dugouts they had lived in for centuries.  These homes use fuel oil for heat.  A generation has been raised in these homes, and no longer know how to live with the land.  The easier to heat dugouts no longer exist.  The people have no reason to go out and gather fuel for the winter, since they use fuel oil, and supplement with a very small amount of wood.  Many use snow machines for transportation instead of dogs.  They are dependent on gasoline.  No transportation no food, there is no grocery stores there.  They have to go out and hunt Caribou for food, then transport it back to the village.  That takes gas.  Gasoline usually runs $8.00 to $9.00 a gallon.  Snow machines until just the last few years were two stroke, mileage was 8 to 12 mpg.  Many two strokes are still in use out there, since the only way to get a new one is to have it brought in by plane.  It's sometimes a hundred miles or more to the nearest village.  During the summer transportation is by boat, again gasoline needed.

If they miss that narrow window for shipments they are screwed for that year.  that barges all run like mad to make the runs they have to make during the summer.  Once Ice up comes that's it no more deliveries.  If it was not Nome involved, they would just have to suck it up like Kobuk and Noatak till spring.   
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What Is A Veteran?
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 12:35:51 PM »
I've always wondered what residents of these small villages do to earn enough to afford snow machines, $9 a gallon gas, air travel to anywhere they have to go and all the other things that I know aren't cheap.  Down here all we hear about are crabbers and fishermen and the folks that run the bush pilot airlines that make livable wages.  What about the real people?

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 03:53:14 PM »
Along the coast the life styles are a lot different than the way the people live inland.  While I've been to many villages I do not know about the day to day lives of the residents.  I do know there is a lot of social issues, cultural issues, and many problems.   Some of the Village men work as fire fighters during the summer.  They fight fires here in Alaska and in other states.  Other men work on the fishing fleet.  What ever they do they have to make enough money during the summer to last the rest of the year.   

One thing I can speak of.  Now don't take this as being indicative of all Native peoples here in Alaska.  But this is an observation I have seen.  I met many young native people when I started going to UAF (University of Alaska Fairbanks).  These young people had grown up in the villages and was totally unprepared for life in the big city.  Booze, Drugs, Partying, all contributed to a new way of life.  After a couple of years many of the boys dropped out and found other things to do, not always legal or respectiable.  Girls came up with child, and moved back to the village.  After child was born, she missed the fast life of the city and left child with Grand-ma and Grand-pa to raise.  18 years later the process is repeated again, only this time it is Great Grand-ma and Great Grand-pa doing the raising.  One of the real problems now is that many of the young people have left the Villages.  The smaller villages are slowly drying up.

Now I do know of several young native men and women, who did go on to graduate at UAF, and UAA, (Anchorage) and are now serving in some very good positions to assist their fellow Natives, and all peoples of the State of Alaska.     
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline powderman

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 05:09:53 PM »
Quote
The government comes in and builds them homes, to get them out of the dugouts they had lived in for centuries.  These homes use fuel oil for heat.  A generation has been raised in these homes, and no longer know how to live with the land.  The easier to heat dugouts no longer exist. 

 
SOURDOUGH. By dugouts I assume you mean built underground?? Or maybe earth piled around them?? Made out of  what?? Heated how?? Can you describe a dugout as used years ago?? POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 10:06:46 PM »
They dug into the side of a hill.  Used wood or bone to creat a frame.  Covered it with a covering (such as hides) to hold the dirt they piled on top and covering it.  Inside they would use a small fireplace, or after Contact with people from outside small iron stoves.  It took very little fuel to heat due to small size, and being under ground it was well insulated.  Plus their bodies were adapted to be comfortable at tempatures far cooler than they and we are comfortable at today.
 
I spent a night in such a dugout on the South West side of Nunavak Island in 1980.  It was in March, temps were down around zero at night, and in the high 20s during the day.  It seems like there was 12 or 14 of us packed inside, there were no vacant spots on the floor.  No fire, just bodies, some in sleeping bags, others just wrapped in blankets.  It got warm enough I unzipped my sleeping bag, and threw it off me most of the night.  One guy get up to go pee, everyone got up and went outside.  When we came back it would be cold, but after an hour or so it would get warm again. 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Dand

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 11:58:46 AM »
Sourdough suggested I take a look at this thread.  I think he's pretty accurately covered the fuel issue. There is some controversy over it in that some people claim there really isn't a fuel crisis in Nome - but there are always nay-sayers.  Like he said, some villages farther in-land are truly in a fuel crisis by the extra tough temps this year.  We've had a lot of relatively easy winters which may have lulled folks into ordering less - especially since its gotten so ferociously expensive ($10 /gal or more some places).  If you do a search on the fuel crisis you'll also find that some rivers have gotten much shallower and villages once served by barges can't get the service any more - and we sure aren't going to be dredging those places. 


What do villagers do for income?  Big variety - there's quite a bit of govt related funding for clinics, schools, post offices, airports, water treatment/ sewage,  maintenance or new construction of the above. Now days most villages have some sort of Tribal government doing a wide variety of stuff - it can be confusing with Tribal Goverments, Village government, Indian Reorganzation Act governments, and Native Corporation governments.  It gets so complicated some villages have consolidated all the functions in one way or another, or one of the above groups does most of the work and the others are relatively low key with arrangements with the lead group.  A few work for the air taxi companies as station managers, a few are pilots. Quite a few villages are near some sort of federal conservation unit ( park or refuge) and there is some employment there.  A lot of interior villagers work as fire fighters in the summer going all over the state and lower 48.  A lot fish commercially to some extent - farther north the less there is usually.  If they live near enough to the coast they may be qualified to work on Bering Sea trawlers in  what is called the Community Development Quota - which is usually leased to the big company boats for a share of the catch and the guarantee of hiring a certain number of locals - its been a huge boost to the village cooperatives an individuals who are willing to do the work.   A few villagers trap,  fewer still may guide, some work on the barges and freight companies. Many many hunt, fish and gather wild food.  Many are known to drop any job to do their subsistence - they are hard wired to go for the traditional - sure thing for food - or work only long enough to buy enough gas or a snogo, boat, motor - for a lot out here priorities are just way different than most of the U.S. There can be lots of turnover in the lower paying jobs - almost job sharing in some cases - and many many folks have temporary work and do not work full time all year long.  In some villages there are very very few jobs and yes they get public assistance in all its various forms, as well as collecting the State permanent fund dividend.


Sounds to me that Roger has more experience than I with some truly traditional living in the "dugout" or farther south called a Bara'bara.  They really were excellent housing for the country, but were terrible when Tuberculosis, flu, and the  other diseases got introduced.  Also I've heard those underground houses always had "company" in the form of little burrowing critters - voles, shrews and such.  Also with the warming, those dugouts don't work so good when it rains in winter - something unknown or very rare 100 years ago.


The newer homes are getting better but its taken a long time to figure out how to do it right - and doing it right is extremely expensive. And the govt supplied housing was often lowest bidder junk prefabbed in the lower 48 then even more poorly assembled on site leaving the folks with terrible conditions.  Add to that many didn't know how or couldn't afford to use or properly maintain so they deteriorated quickly.  There are classes offered now and programs to oversee maintenance /upgrades.  I had one friend who insisted HUD come out and train and hire locals to build from the ground up so the folks had more buy-in and more know-how to take care of their stuff.  In that village it really worked well - but then my friend kind of lorded it over most other residents and ordered them around.  I teased him that he really couldn't be emperor of the village  - but he was one HARD worker.  Sadly he flew his plane into the ground in bad weather.


Well enough rambling. It was a shame that the late fall barge abandoned its effort so quickly in OCT as this same Coast Guard icebreaker was in the area and they might have been able to work something out far earlier and before near as much ice was made.  But we did have a LOT of big nasty storms all fall.


One thing I keep thinking is that if these 2 ships built for ice have this much trouble this early in the winter, how the heck will these oil companies operate much farther north where there's lots more old thick ice for a lot longer every winter?  While I'm not in the greeny skreech and holler camp on the Chuckchi Sea oil leases, I DO have some serious reservations as to how well Shell really can manage the conditions up there.
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 01:24:52 PM »
Guys, Thanks for the first hand info.  I put little stock in what the TV folks tell us and not much more in the written word of authors I don't know.  First hand info as has been offered here is unbeatable. 

Offline powderman

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 01:45:31 PM »
Guys, Thanks for the first hand info.  I put little stock in what the TV folks tell us and not much more in the written word of authors I don't know.  First hand info as has been offered here is unbeatable.

 
YEP, and definitely appreciated. Thanks for the reports guys. Humor me please with a silly question. The dugouts were into the side of a hill you said and many years ago small fires were used then small metal stoves. I can picture a dugout into a hillside but where did the smoke go?? Up through the earth?? POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 06:01:18 PM »
They left a small hole in the roof, then later stove pipe thru the roof.  Before stove pipes, yes it got smokey.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.


Offline Dand

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2012, 10:03:20 PM »
A couple more details I meant to add:  I believe in the really old days those dugouts were often just heated with oil (seal or whale) lamps - flat stone dishes of various sizes with grass or some other type of plant wick.  I've seen some rather large lamps in the museums that with several wicks probably put out a lot of heat.  Yes those dugouts generally just had a smoke hole and by all accounts they were pretty smokey inside. 


Quite a few years ago, some permafrost / ice lens broke out of a bank up by Barrow.  It exposed a complete tent or dugout with an unfortunate family inside - all frozen and mummified for maybe 100+ years.  Don't remember the details but autopsies were done and it was noted that tho the people weren't all that  old, they had a lot of soot in their lungs - probably from breathing soot from the heating / lighting lamps.  I think they speculated that the people were trapped by a big cave-in of the bank against which their tent / dugout had been built.  You might be able to find more info with a google search.  Or search for Frozen Family in this article: http://ux.brookdalecc.edu/staff/sandyhook/dgrant/field/Alaska-Barrow.html  or here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit .


Now to get that tanker and icebreaker back out to open water - I hope all goes well.  I heard today on the radio that Nome would have run out of fuel by March or so and that now with the long cold, they are low on heating oil and may have to fly some in.  I'd guess they could use some diesel to stretch the heating oil - but when they ordered this tanker load, they weren't expecting this loooong cold spell.


I'm feeling like we're finally getting a real winter like we haven't seen often in the last 15 years or so. We may be getting a little lax on our preparations and stores.  Shoot I had so much wood this fall I was thinking I wouldn't do any cutting this spring.  Well the wood piles are rapidly going away and I'll probably head out to cut in late Feb when its warmer (I hope) and lighter and the snow is more solid.  Hey its getting light in the sky by 9 AM and staying light until after 5PM!!! Spring is coming.  What I like about Dillingham is its far enough south that we don't have quite the deep long dark of Fairbanks, Nome, and farther north - that gets to be a real grind when its also so blamed cold.
NRA Life

liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

Offline Old Syko

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2012, 01:42:12 AM »
It will be interesting to see what happens to this tanker once frozen in.  Would seem the force of the ice would crush the hull, especially after being unloaded.  There are forces at work here more massive than mere mortals tend to comprehend. 


A little info on the frozen family.  These dugouts have an uncanny resemblance to our meat smokers and apparently have somewhat the same result.
http://11ahdeadbodies.wikispaces.com/Eskimo+Family

Offline powderman

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2012, 05:30:40 AM »
THanks for the links guys. I too wonder what will keep the ice from crushing the hulls just sitting there. Sounds like a very dangerous operation and I would not want to be on either of those ships. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dand

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Re: Nome prepares for tricky transfer of fuel.
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2012, 10:45:35 PM »
I believe they head south Friday.  I think the hulls are shaped to kind of squirt to the surface if the ice squeezes too hard.  In a side bar somewhere, I found where the Russian captain says they do this kind of thing pretty often on the Russian side of the Bering Sea.


Mission complete, tanker faces 400-mile return through iceBy MARY PEMBERTONAssociated Press
Published: January 20th, 2012 12:03 AM Last Modified: January 20th, 2012 12:04 AM
The mission was daunting by every measure: First, journey 5,000 miles, struggling at times through thick ocean ice, then pump 1.3 million gallons of fuel from a frozen-in-place ship to an iced-in Alaska city half a mile away, all while braving subzero temperatures. ...................["I don't really feel like it is over yet until everybody is safely through the ice," Evans said.
The plan is for the icebreaker to help get the tanker back through the ice and to open water where the tanker will head for Russia. The icebreaker will go to Dutch Harbor to drop off supplies and then to its home port in Seattle.
Smith said Thursday ice reports indicate there is a southbound route of 395 miles from Nome to the ice edge.
The city of 3,500 didn't get its last pre-winter barge fuel delivery because of a massive November storm. Without the Russian tanker's delivery, Nome -- an old Gold Rush town that is experiencing one of the coldest winters on record with temperatures dipping to more than 30 below -- would have run out of fuel by March or April, long before the next barge delivery is possible..............]
http://www.adn.com/2012/01/19/2272068/tanker-finishes-transfer-of-fuel.html

This long stretch of cold weather has probably been making ice like crazy along the southern ice edge.  When I worked in Dutch Harbor I recall ice moving south at I think 10 to over 25 miles a day in the right conditions. 
NRA Life

liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA