454 Cast Bullet Loads

[HGunner]

I've been working on a big deer / elk load for my 6" FA 454.  I have loaded the RCBS 300 gr SWC-GC (actual lubed weight of 315 gr) to 1270 fps with very good accuracy and I have loaded the Cast Performance 335 gr WLNGC to 1130 fps with excellent accuracy.  These are just my starting loads.  I am trying to achieve reliable performance on game up to elk size while limiting recoil so I can practice more.  How much is enough for a reliable big game hunting load?

[Mikey]

HGunner:  it is my honest opinion that both the loads you practice with are more than sufficient for Elk within the range of the pistol.  Either load will leave a exit wound.  It is not how fast you can get it going, it is where you put it.  Placement is the key.  Make your practice enjoyable, but practice. 

[Lloyd Smale]

like mikey said your allready there. Ive shot 1200 lb buffalo with loads simular.

[HGunner]

I've just starting testing these loads but my early results indicate that my FA really likes the Cast Performance 335 gr WLNGC.  I am trying to develop a load that will work reliably to about 75 yards (and I would only take this shot if I was sitting with my back against a tree).  I assumed I should get the bullet going a little faster than 1130 fps - maybe 1200 fps?  But maybe that's not needed.  I guess I'm asking how to get the best balance of Elk level performance and recoil -- it's my current project.  The 315 @ 1270 fps is a load I can shoot well but the recoil is nearing the upper end of what I enjoy shooting.

[palgeno]

Check the Hogdon data---there is a nice mid-load for the 335 gr cast gas check at 1300 fps which is very accurate and a nice shooting load which ought to do the job for you......I didn't find any recoil difference between 1200 fps and 1300 fps...at least in my gun--7.5 inch with 4x scope.
Gene

[HGunner]

When considering these 300+ gr cast loads, do the velocity needs change for a broadside lung shot vs a shoulder shot.  I would like a load that I can take any reasonable shot opportunity including a quartering to me shoulder shot.

[BigMuddy]

I don't think a deer or elk either one will notice if that 335 gr. bullet is going 70 fps faster or not. Like Lloyd said, you are there. If you want to tweak the load a little bit, tweak for accuracy not velocity. A lot of deer and elk have fallen to lighter bullets at lower velocities than what you are getting. Shoot the loads you have a LOT and you will be looking for good venison recipes soon.

[HGunner]

I really appreciate the responses.  I've had good luck deer hunting with a handgun for several years now but I am ready to try for bigger game.  If I am hearing you guys right a 335 gr hard cast bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps is more than adequate for a shoulder shot on a mature elk out to 75 yards.  Honestly, this surprises me but I have no experience with heavy, hard cast bullets.  If I have misunderstood please let me know.  Otherwise, I will proceed based on best accuracy and not necessarily worry about more power.

Thanks again,  HGunner

[mk454]

yes it should but at 1300 to 1600 fps it'll penetrate from any angle through any part of the elk no matter what shot you have.  i don't notice a huge recoil difference b/w 1100 and 1300 fps, the difference b/w 1300 and 1600 fps is exponential.  i like mine for elk around 1300-1500 fps.  when i gettem going to 1500 fps or above it starts to bring the hammer down on them.  i have a load that clips out at 1800 fps out of my 10" and it breaks them down out to extended ranges as well, but at 75 yards, the 1100 fps will certainly kill it fine.

[Fire Fox]

I have used only cast bullets in my 454 and had great results on game from deer to asian buffalo. The bullet you are thinking of using with 30 to 31 gr of H110 and reg small rifle primers will work on most anything you want to take in the U.S. and almost any where else ( would exclude elephant, rhino , etc  for 100 yards or perhaps a little farther. My favorite is the Lee 300 grain gas checked and heat treated by me with the same powder charge. The precision cast 360 gr is great with charges of 25 to 28 gr of H110 and a reg small rifle primer. I have used the lower charge for target practice and the heavier charge for hunting. However, you may find the lower charge in this bullet will work on elk also. I have found it to be very accurate at 100 yards and fun to shoot as well as penetrating very well. You may find that heavy bullets at slightly slower velocities produce less recoil and do well on large game as long as you do your part. I hope this helps. 

[Missionary5155]

Greetings
An old hunter once told me to compare my revolver loads to the old BP cartrige loads.  If my revolver caliber loading was near equal to the bullet weight, fps and diameter of a BP loading from an old BP rifle load I would not have any problem taking a critter that the old BP rifle cartrige was known to have been used for successfully. 
I have a 454 also.  It is easy to equal the loadings of the 45-60 and the BP 45-70 with up to 350 grainers and those two BP rifle calibers were used for every critter walking our side of this world.
Mike in Peru

[S.B.]

  i don't notice a huge recoil difference b/w 1100 and 1300 fps, the difference b/w 1300 and 1600 fps is exponential. 

I guess I'm dumber than the normal person but, given this description ADJECTIVE:
 

• Of or relating to an exponent.
• Mathematics 
• Containing, involving, or expressed as an exponent.
• Expressed in terms of a designated power of e, the base of natural logarithms.

 what does this mean for the original poster?
I do know what an exponent is. Are you saying the power or effectiveness of HGunner's load is surpassed by your load by his loads power times itself or cubed?
Steve

[Graybeard]

While NOT technically correct it is quite common usage to say something is exponentially greater than some thing else. Synomous with order of magnitude greater as well which also is most of the time not technically correct.

It commonly means a major difference easily noticed and not technically what you'd think. Yes I suspect it is derived from the use of the exponent for squared/cubed/etc even tho as I said the change is seldom technically that.

Clear as mud right?

[Graybeard]

Greetings
An old hunter once told me to compare my revolver loads to the old BP cartrige loads.  If my revolver caliber loading was near equal to the bullet weight, fps and diameter of a BP loading from an old BP rifle load I would not have any problem taking a critter that the old BP rifle cartrige was known to have been used for successfully. 
I have a 454 also.  It is easy to equal the loadings of the 45-60 and the BP 45-70 with up to 350 grainers and those two BP rifle calibers were used for every critter walking our side of this world.
Mike in Peru

The flaw in that logic is that the .454 doesn't do all that well with bullets over 350 grains and I think 360 is the heaviest I've seen used in it. In the .45-70 in the old BP days 400 grains was a light bullet and I seem to recall used only in carbines in Army loads. The standard was 500 grains.

Now jump to the .480 Ruger and .475 Linebaugh and those 400/450 grain bullets are normal fare and thus a better comparison to the BP .45-70 loads. Still I think either of the three handgun rounds is more than adequate for anything you're likely to encounter in North America these days.

So even without the same weight bullets as the old BP .45-70 I still say the rounds are plenty.

My favorite .454 Casull load is the Lyman 452651 GC bullet pushed to 1550 fps. Don't take this as load data but I think I used 28.5 grains of H110/W296 to reach that velocity in my 7.5" FA83 and 8-3/8" Taurus Raging Bull. In my 8-3/8" Raging Bull .480 Ruger I used bullets from 400-440 grains all cast and generally pushed them to around 1000-1150 fps.

[S.B.]

Bill, while probably not common with modern gun scribes but, I think it easier to just say one load works better than another? I'm just old fashion. I adhere to the rule, KISS, cause I am.
Steve

[Lloyd Smale]

ive seen it more times then not that when you push a cast bullet faster then 1300 fps penetration will not increase as a matter of fact it can decrease substantial. theres not to many bullets designs or alloys that can hold up to that kind of velocity and once a cast bullet has deformed pentration suffers imediatly. Even if they keep penetrating they usually vear off course. If you want more power then a 454 will give you shooting a 350 at 1300fps its time to step up to 475 or 50 cal. They have the capability of shooting larger diameter heavier slugs at 1300 fps.

yes it should but at 1300 to 1600 fps it'll penetrate from any angle through any part of the elk no matter what shot you have.  i don't notice a huge recoil difference b/w 1100 and 1300 fps, the difference b/w 1300 and 1600 fps is exponential.  i like mine for elk around 1300-1500 fps.  when i gettem going to 1500 fps or above it starts to bring the hammer down on them.  i have a load that clips out at 1800 fps out of my 10" and it breaks them down out to extended ranges as well, but at 75 yards, the 1100 fps will certainly kill it fine.

[dpe.ahoy]

I, for one, would sure as hell not stand behind what ever the OP was shooting at with either of his loads.  I'm running the same 335gr and a SWC of the 315 gr at slightly more speed and have never recovered one on game and had them pass through railroad ties into the ground behind with considerable dirt kicked up above the backstop.  Elk in Montana do not wear flak jackets and shoulder hits with a chunk of lead that size will put one on the ground, probably dead by the time you get to it if it doesn't kill it quickly.  DP

[corbanzo]

That 335 at 1200 is plenty.  I've loaded those up close to 1500, and the penetration results I've seen don't improve much.  If you are worried about it, get ahold of rangerrick, who happens to be a member here... from homer, ak who makes the t-rex killers for the .500.  He casts a 385grain for the .454. 
 
I used to shoot CP 360's, but went down to the 335's because of better accuracy, and an no lack in performance.
 
In all honesty if you are looking for a deer/elk load I would drop down the the 300 grain CP wlngc and take it up around 1500, so you still get a good whack, but you are also improving your trajactory at range.  The only reason I shoot 335's is because I live in alaska, and load for moose and bear, anywhere else for elk and deer, i would be looking at the 280-300 range and picking up my velocity, while keeping the recoil of giant bullets down for accuracy. 
 
But honestly, any hunk of lead 300+ grains at 1000+ fps is gonna kill anything around this continent if you hit it right. 

[Lloyd Smale]

by the way that rcbs 300 swc is one fine bullet. It is probalby the most accurate overall bullet in all my 45 cal guns and ive killed more game with that bullet then probably all the other kills ive made with handguns combined. It does the job!

[Fire Fox]

I have also found that I shoot the hard cast 300 gr for everything and it has worked very well on animals from 25 lbs to 3000 lbs if I did my part. I have heavier bullets in cast but I keep going back to the 300 gr with the previously mentioned charge because it just works very well for me and is accurate. Hope this helps.

[Ken ONeill]

HGunner,
Well, there are elk, and there are big bull elk. There's potentially a big difference between the two. Both of your loads will kill elk, both cows and bulls. Personally, I'd probably opt for the 300/315 @ 1270 fps, for the very slightly flatter trajectory, but we're splitting hairs here.
You used words like "very good" and "excellent" to describe accuracy. If the 335 is significantly more accurate, use it, but the 140 fps will make a bit of difference at the longer ranges, although that will likely only be significant if threading the bullet through limbs, etc.

[HGunner]

After quite a bit more experimenting I settled on two very accurate loads with the RCBS 300g SWC-GC going 1270 fps and the 335g WLNGC going 1240 fps.  Accuracy is near equal in my 6" FA 454.  Both will shoot less than 2" at 50 yards with iron sights.  I will be hunting soon and decided to go with the 300g (actually 315g) at 1270 simply because it is easier to regulate with my sights.  For anyone interested I have found IMR-4227 to be a great powder for medium 454 loads.  Shooting these "heavy 45 colt" type loads out of my FA 454 is easy on me, my gun and my brass.  I don't think they will be easy on deer!

[Plagioclase]

I'm late to the party but timely set of posts for me.  I just picked up a SRH in 454 and want to develop elk loads for next fall.  I'm looking at the 345 BTB and the Cast Performance 360 bullet.  I like the wide meplats on both of those bullets. 
 
I'm also not looking to push the 454 to max because recoil is a bit harsh plus I don't think it will gain me anything - once 3-4 ft of penetration is obtained, why do I need more? 
 
Anyone have any on-game experience with either of these bullets in the 454?
 
Thanks.

[41 mag]

While it might not be the particular one being discussed I am using the Lee 300gr RF in my Raging Bull. So far it has one hog and an assist on a deer to it's credit.

I am using the 45/45/10 lube on them with a GC and they have been run up into the high 1600fps range with no ill effects in the barrel. I however am loading them more on the lower side of 1500 now and have found them plenty accurate out to 100yds from a rest.

I'm still playing with a couple of loads for it and the latest one was using 2400. It was simply a test at 20grs and they shot very well at 25yds off hand. I will however be bumping the load up to at least 21 or so grains as the velocity was only running around 1100fps. I am particularly interested in somethig int he 1250 - 1300fps range.

Here is a short clip of the initial test with them at 50yds loaded to just over 1500fps,


The grandosn found the bullet sitting on the ground when we walked up to the buckets. Here it is along side the loaded rounds,

[Plagioclase]

Very cool.  Thank you!
 
I picked up a 5.5" Ruger Bisley in 45 and will likely run 300's in it. 

[Fire Fox]

As I replied in previous post the 360 gr Precision Cast is a great bullet at 25 to 28 gr of H110. I have had great accracy and results from this bullet on everything I have tried and always with complete penetration. I mostly use the lee cast 300 gr  Heat treated and have had complete penetration on everything living I have shot from a SRH 454 at about 1500 fps. However, the 360 with 25 gr of H110 has less recoil and has been just as good. This load is great fun to shoot and very pleasant, accurate and penetrates on everything from deer to Asian buffalo. Hope this helps.