Alloys for Home Gun Building?

[flmason]

Anyone know anything about this?

Was inspired by "A Rifle Anyone Can Build" and Cornbelt's work.

But... I'm a fan of stainless... and safety, LOL!

Is something like 416 stainless something that one can machine with hand or small power tools and not have to heat treat or worry about strength and brittleness issues? 

Though not stainless, what's the story on 4140 or similar?

Still trying to figure out what would be the easiest design to start with first, so if anyone has any thoughts. Was thinking a handgun, being smaller, might be easiest to start with. To be honest, not sure *when* I'll get to it. Still trying to recover from the recession, and will probably wait until I have a home again, and some work space, but thinking on it now.

Would someday like to recreate a revolver of some sort, say an Army Colt or similar. And maybe a break action rifle.

Completely off topic, but in researching the topic, ran into a lot of AK47 type builds out there. Anyone ever done it? Is it difficult? Are accurate blueprints for a legal semi-auto version hard to come by?  (Perhaps should be a separate thread.)

[keith44]

for a first build I would recommend a single shot .22 LR, manual cocked, striker fired.  Getting the sear surfaces hardened correctly so that a smooth surface with a positive angle of engagement will be the hardest part.  As to alloy, it's a safe bet that with .22 LR just about every alloy has been tried, zinc, aluminum, and various steels of varying quality.  If you choose this option (or a different action type in .22 LR barrel liners are available, and make it easy to have a properly chambered, diamentioned, rifled barrel.

[Reverend Recoil]

For such a rifle I would use O1 tool steel for the trigger, hammer, and extractor.  These small O1 parts can be hardened and tempered with a propane torch and a can of automatic transmission fluid.  Another option is to case harden these parts of 1018 steel. Hot rolled untreated 1018 can be used for everything else.

[oldred]

Hi, new here and this is my first post but I have been here for a while. This post really got my attention because I really enjoy building guns and not long ago I finished my first scratch built rifle, a Highwall replica in 45/90, and I am always looking for other builders who like to discuss scratch-built guns. The receiver and some internal parts of this rifle are machined from 4140HT with the hammer and sear being O1 tool steel, my vote for the OP's question is to use the 4140HT (heat treated) since it is super strong, machines beautifully and will need no other form of heat treating when finished and the O1 for the hammer/sear. I built this rifle on a lathe using a home made milling attachment and a few other shop made fixtures so a lot of shop equipment may not be necessary. Right now I am building a scaled down Highwall that will either be in 22 Hornet or the new Hornady 17 Hornet, I'm leaning toward the 17 at this point.

[Rock6.3]

Very nicely done!

Hi, new here and this is my first post but I have been here for a while. This post really got my attention because I really enjoy building guns and not long ago I finished my first scratch built rifle, a Highwall replica in 45/90, and I am always looking for other builders who like to discuss scratch-built guns. The receiver and some internal parts of this rifle are machined from 4140HT with the hammer and sear being O1 tool steel, my vote for the OP's question is to use the 4140HT (heat treated) since it is super strong, machines beautifully and will need no other form of heat treating when finished and the O1 for the hammer/sear. I built this rifle on a lathe using a home made milling attachment and a few other shop made fixtures so a lot of shop equipment may not be necessary. Right now I am building a scaled down Highwall that will either be in 22 Hornet or the new Hornady 17 Hornet, I'm leaning toward the 17 at this point.

[keith44]

Beautiful!!

[tacklebury]

Love it. 

[gunnut69]

Hello and welcome OLDRED.. That is certainly a lovely job..

[Casull]

Beautiful work. 

[flmason]

Nicely done OldRed, for sure.

Would seem you have more elaborate tooling than I ever anticipate having in the near term. I'll be trying to do it in a minimalist fashion to be sure. So designs that don't require elaborate machining are of interest to me.

My hat's off to you for sure!

Where to you get blueprints or dimensions from?

[oldred]

Well actually my equipment is fairly limited since I only have a lathe and hand tools but I hope to acquire a mill soon, I have been searching for a good used Bridgeport but until then I have been using a milling attachment that I rigged up on my lathe. There is an excellent drawings set on E-Bay for the Highwall and the same seller also has drawings for quite a few other rifles and pistols, I have a buddy who bought the Highwall drawings and they seem to be very accurate and complete. I did not have the drawings available when I built mine but I was lucky enough to have an old original rifle at a shop nearby that I could take measurements and photos of while he had it disassembled. If you have not decided on what you are going to build I would suggest the Highwall if that style gun is to your liking, the reason is that it's a simple yet very strong design that can be built with a minimum of equipment.

[flmason]

Well actually my equipment is fairly limited since I only have a lathe and hand tools but I hope to acquire a mill soon, I have been searching for a good used Bridgeport but until then I have been using a milling attachment that I rigged up on my lathe. There is an excellent drawings set on E-Bay for the Highwall and the same seller also has drawings for quite a few other rifles and pistols, I have a buddy who bought the Highwall drawings and they seem to be very accurate and complete. I did not have the drawings available when I built mine but I was lucky enough to have an old original rifle at a shop nearby that I could take measurements and photos of while he had it disassembled. If you have not decided on what you are going to build I would suggest the Highwall if that style gun is to your liking, the reason is that it's a simple yet very strong design that can be built with a minimum of equipment.

Definitely like a high wall, rolling block, etc.

But it looks like a one piece receiver with possibly intricate internal millings, so that rules it out for me at present. I'm looking for the simplest receiver that can be safely adapted to any caliber.

I would say, "Like the Cobray FMJ" except that requires a weld or two where the barrel meets receiver.

I literally am looking a safe design that I could go into any town anywhere USA and, but for the barrel, build the rest, with minimal machining and minimal tools, yet retain decent accuracy. I.e. utilitarian level simple, not zip gun level simplicity. I'm thinking, "not even drill press is available." I.e. hand drill, files, tap & dies, etc. Literally all human powered tooling if possible.

I'm leaning towards break action designs at the moment. 

Now, someday, I ever get the room for a workshop... some seriously nice work like yours would be awesome.  But at present we are talking... "in the living room and back porch", LOL!

As to the reason why such a minimalist approach? Basically want the highest probability I can actually finish it in a reasonable length of time, for me.

I'd almost say a flintlock might be where I'm at, LOL! Though clearly, the percussion type would be the easiest of all. Looks to me like a sidelock could be adapted to "hacksaw and file" build methods.

But yes, if I had a way to do intricate inside machining, I'd probably try to do a bolt action of some sort or a revolver even.

[oldred]

I assumed you had access to some equipment but that's OK because what you are wanting to do is still very much possible with enough determination. A muzzlerloader is an excellent option since, with the exception of the barrel, most parts can be built with hand tools and of course the stock can be hand carved. patience is the key and and a good set of well cared for files and other hand tools can create a side lock that you would be proud of! Parts can be made from soft mild steel such as 1018 so they can be worked easily then case hardened with a torch and a compound such as Kasenit or Cherry red then they can be blued or browned to a beautiful and durable finish with a rust bluing/browning product (or simply cold blued but it won't look as good) and even springs are simple to make using the right steel. That E-Bay seller has drawings for both percussion and flint lock rifles and although I have not seen these if they are as good as the set my buddy bought for his Highwall project they are an excellent buy. There is no doubt about it, a muzzleloader can be built using nothing but hand tools and if the builder is patient and will pay attention to detail he can create a piece he can be proud of! Actually hand held power tools, with the exception of a drill, can ruin a project quicker than you might imagine so tools like disc grinders and burr grinders should not even be considered-even a dremel tool can make a mess out of a project! Lay-out fluid (or even a large felt tip maker), some graphite pencils, a good selection of sharp files and a copious amount of determination and patience will accomplish amazing results.

[flmason]

I assumed you had access to some equipment but that's OK because what you are wanting to do is still very much possible with enough determination. A muzzlerloader is an excellent option since, with the exception of the barrel, most parts can be built with hand tools and of course the stock can be hand carved. patience is the key and and a good set of well cared for files and other hand tools can create a side lock that you would be proud of! Parts can be made from soft mild steel such as 1018 so they can be worked easily then case hardened with a torch and a compound such as Kasenit or Cherry red then they can be blued or browned to a beautiful and durable finish with a rust bluing/browning product (or simply cold blued but it won't look as good) and even springs are simple to make using the right steel. That E-Bay seller has drawings for both percussion and flint lock rifles and although I have not seen these if they are as good as the set my buddy bought for his Highwall project they are an excellent buy. There is no doubt about it, a muzzleloader can be built using nothing but hand tools and if the builder is patient and will pay attention to detail he can create a piece he can be proud of! Actually hand held power tools, with the exception of a drill, can ruin a project quicker than you might imagine so tools like disc grinders and burr grinders should not even be considered-even a dremel tool can make a mess out of a project! Lay-out fluid (or even a large felt tip maker), some graphite pencils, a good selection of sharp files and a copious amount of determination and patience will accomplish amazing results.

Yes, there's no doubt I look forward to the day when I can have a better workspace. Had access to tooling when I was a kid, so definitely aware of the flexibility and good drill press and lathe can add, not to mention the quality factor. Have to believe small mill would really up the possibilities.

But for now, keeping it simple is the main goal. That's why that Rem. Mod. 6 built is so appealing. The receiver build technique looks doable. Or any receiver that can be adapted to the "two side plates and a thick center" modeling. But of course it lacks the elegance of more traditional factory methods.

So at the minute I'm really thinking either a break action of some sort or a .75 cal. flintlock. But in all reality, may be quite some time before I cut the first part. Unfortunately, the waiting and trying to get to a better home for these things is killing me, LOL!

In the meantime, trying to arrive at a clear goal and plan.