Solving bullet-creep in mag revolvers

[Terbltim]

Hey Gang,
If you like to shoot heavy cast bullets in big-bore revolvers like the, 45 Colt, 454 Casull or the 475 Linebaugh, (like I do,) you may have occasionally had to fight the phenomenon of the bullets jumping, walking or creeping out of their crimps under recoil. This can be bad enough to jam a revolver which can be a serious matter, especially if you really needed that shot to fire!
While not such a problem with jacketed bullets, they’re not immune to creeping either.
All the big-bore revolvers can suffer from this and suffice it to say it is very annoying!

The real culprit is the roll-crimp, (the most common technique for making the crimp on our loads.) The roll-crimp pushes the case rearward as it turns the case mouth inwards towards the bullet. This rearward push often causes the case to bulge a little somewhere behind the case-mouth. To see it you may need a magnifying glass. Sometimes you can feel it and calipers will usually detect it. The result is an imperfect crimp and a significant loss of the grip that the case wall had on the bullet. Many folks don’t know that the grip of the case wall is doing a lot of the work of holding the bullet in place. That bulge forces the crimp to do more of the work, something it is incapable of doing by itself.
The companies of Lee Precision and Redding understand this and both have made dies in attempts to solve this problem, (Redding's Profile Crimp Die and the Factory Crimp Die from Lee,) but they both fall short of perfection for the same reason…they still use a typical roll crimp action. (They have other issues too but a separate essay is needed for that subject.)

Enter Ranch Dog Outdoors with their Lee Custom-Made Factory Crimp Dies.
Ranch-Dog has gotten Lee Precision to make crimp dies for revolvers that apply the crimp via a collet, just like with the Lee Factory Crimp Die for rifles. No more typical roll crimp action which means no bulge behind the crimp-groove or anywhere else on the case!
The Collet-Crimp is applied from the rear so that no bulge is created on the case. What’s more, the collet can be adjusted to give a pretty deep crimp and will apply that crimp wherever the case-mouth happens to be on the bullet. It does not require a crimp-groove to be present at all. This crimp die will make the crimp-groove as it makes the crimp. This die also doesn’t undersize the case or bullet in the event you are using larger diameters than industry standards, (as both the Lee and Redding dies can do.) The Lee Collet-Crimp Die is normally made only for rifles but Ranch-Dog has persuaded Lee to custom-make them for 45 Colt, 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum.

In an email conversation with Ranch Dog I suggested he get those collet-crimp dies made up for the 454 Casull and the 475 Linebaugh and others. He said he would if there was a good chance of selling most of them. Lee insists that he buy them in lots of 100 items or more…no small investment! At a purchase price of only $20 each they should be interesting to anyone that loads for the big magnum revolvers.

There you have it! If you’d like to see these collet-crimp dies made available for the 454 Casull and other big cartridges, let Ranch Dog know you’re interested. Get your friends to do the same and the day may come when a reliable crimp can be made with a single pass through one die.
Ranch Dog has a whole line of customized Lee products available only on his site and he’s also an authorized distributor of all the Lee products.

The link to the page that shows these modified Factory Crimp Dies is: http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=53_54

But the real message of this post is for everyone to... tell Ranch Dog you’d like to buy such dies made for the 454, 475 or whatever your preference is.

His email is: mail@ranchdogoutdoors.com
With enough response we might all solve those creeping problems.

BTW, Lee Precision does not admit they make such a thing for handgun cartridges, (even though it is they who make them for Ranch Dog.) If you ask about it they pretend they don’t know what you’re talking about. (Maybe they’re not pretending…duh!)

[SHOOTALL]

Or you could just get a Redding profile crimp die for the round you are loading like shooters in the know have done for over 20 years.

[tacklebury]

I like LEE FCD's, but probably just a personal preference as it's what I'm used to.  I find it very versatile and like being able to get a tight, but not deforming crimp even on flat of a bullet. 

[gypsyman]

Shootall +1  gypsyman

[Grumulkin]

Well, you can get custom made Lee Factory Crimp Dies anytime you like but they cost more than $20.  There are a couple of cartridges I load for in which I found it impossible to get a firm enough crimp on to keep bullets from moving without crushing the case.  Custom made Lee Factory Crimp Dies solved that problem.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. Bullets jumping crimp can be caused by a number of things. First on the list is improper case tension. If you have poor case tension you will get bullet jump in something like a 475 no matter what crimp you use. Case tension will also effect accuracy alot. Best cure is a proper dimentioned sizing die and good brass. I find starline brass is the best for case tension and even then will only use it for two full power loadings before it is switched over to light load use. Ive seen case tension lost too because after sizing a guy runs the brass into a improperly set flaring die. Ill even used my 500 die to flare my 475 brass because the expander is to big to go inot the case and open the neck up. it just puts a small flare that allows bullets to start. Another thing that will cause problems is an improper set up on your seating die where the bullet is still being pushed down as the crimp is being made. eaiest fix for this is to seat with one die and crimp with another. Personaly i dont care for factory crimp dies as they have a carbide sizer ring that irons out the case and that action causes the brass to spring back and loose tension. What i do is take the seating plug out of another die and use it just for crimping. One last problem is some bullet designs dont have a deep enough crimp grove. the lee 400 and rcbs 400 are a couple very popular 475 bullets and both have marginal at best crimp groves. But bottom line is using good brass and proper dies that are set properly ive NEVER had a bullet jump in the 475s or 500s. Ignore these things and NO crimping die is going to make up for it.

[StrawHat]

What Lloyd said.  I used to load heavy bullets to magnum plus velocities.  Back then, neck tension, a decent set of dies and good loading practices prevented creep. 

[SHOOTALL]

What Lloyd said.  I used to load heavy bullets to magnum plus velocities.  Back then, neck tension, a decent set of dies and good loading practices prevented creep.

 
good loading pratice would/should include a good profile crimp as it locks the bullet in place and leaves it little room to move either way in or out. I have found it gives the best accuracy as it is very consistant round to round. It was the best I found when shooting 454 . 45 Colt loaded to 44 mag preformance and 44 mag loaded a bit over max. out to 200 meters.
Also cases should be of exact same length or the crimp will vary .