Winchester Model 75: Why side mounts?

[mannyrock]

 
Dear Guys,
 
   I have been looking at Winchester Model 75s, in .22 caliber, both Target and Sporter version.  These are beautiful old rifles, but I notice that about a third of them have had four holes drilled in the side of the receiver, to use the Weaver Side Mount for mounting a scope.
 
  My question is, why in the world did people do this?  Why couldn't they have just drilled and tapped the top of the receiver, or had mounting grooves cut in the top of the receiver, to mount a scope, instead of turning the receiver into swiss cheese?
 
   Was this a mechanical necessity, due to the bolt handle being too high to clear a scope? Or maybe the distance between the front and back bridge of the receiver were too close, so that
there was little room to adjust a scope forward or backward between the rings?  Would this still be an issue today, given the new compact scopes and extension rings?
 
   Seems a terrible shame that so many were butchered.
 
   All replies welcome.
 
Mannyrock

[Frank46]

You bring up a good question. I had a 69A win and it was grooved for scope mounts and drilled and tapped for iron sights. This was done as far as I know at the factory. While my knowledge of the various models of the 75 is limited, it was probably done as a cost saving measure done when gunsmithing fees were less than they are today. In other words a cheap way to get a scope mounted. If you just want a shooter then drilled and tapped probably would work for you. But if a collector then condition is everything. Hope this helps. Frank

[cwlongshot]

I feel the biggest reason was the design of the receiver of most "22 rifles" of the day... On many rifles the bolt is located midship on the bolt instead of the rear of the bolt as found on many CF bolt rifles. Because of this there is a slot thru the top of the rear of the receiver right where the rear base would need to be mounted.
Now I realize not all where made this way, but it was a different time and it was easier to tool up for one style and go with it for all "cheaper" rifles...
 
I have a '20's Savage 23B I would very much like to scope. But like you I will not drill and tap it. It IS factory tapped for a side mount. FINDING the correct side mount and required rings has futile... I was able to mount a tiny red dot as there is a single large hole tapped in the top of the receiver. I modified a base and using that one screw and red lock tite I mounted the base and that red dot with a single ring. Its working, but I worry about banging it and loosing its zero. Of coarse this would not work on a longer scope as the leverage would quickly defeat the single ring.
 
Good luck, It going to be fun and I will be watching your progress!
 

CW

[Rangr44]

The answer is: none of the above.
 
What you're not taking into consideration is the time frame of the rifle(s) manufacture, and the popularity (or unpopularity if you will) of the (at the time) new-fangled, affordable (by poor folks) telescopic sights, and the availability of scope mounts, along with gunsmiths.
 
RF rifle of the time weren't grooved for tip-off mounts, and not many gunsmiths of the day were even aware of the feature (nevermind able to cut them accurately) - since the grooving wasn't generally a factory option until the mid-1950's, just about the same time affordable scopes were just starting to be introduced.
 
Most ".22 scopes" were flimsy 3/4" tube jobs - many from Japan ( at the time a lousy optics source) - and about the only affordable 3/4" ringmounts were from Weaver (at first), who offered their sidemounts & ring brackets in both RF & CF versions. (the idea of mounting 1" tube CF "rifle" scopes on a ".22" wasn't intro'd until the mid-70's)
 
So, for the average joe, earning $35/week & having to eat, pay rent, etc - which would YOU do:
 
Spend $4 for attaching a $9 scope in a $2 ring bracket & $3 sidemount base (some dispensed with the base & mounted the RF ring bracket directly), for a total of $18 (1/2-weeks wage).
 
or
 
Spend (yeah) $20 for grooving, a $40 scope in $7.50 rings & $3 bases, for a total of $70.50 (2 weeks wage).
 
FWIW, the rifles the owners were "ruining" weren't collector's items at the time - they were "shooters".
Their owners did whatever they thought needed, that they could affors, to shoot them.
 
.

[Ranch13]

Actually there really isn't room for top mount scope blocks, and given that many of the target guns were single loaded a top mounted scope would of been in the way. Those old side mounts were alot more solid than a good many of the 22 scopes of the day.
 My 75 target rifle is set up for Unertyl scope on the barrel, and has the Redfield Olympic iron sights.

[gunnut69]

There ia nothing wrong with the side mounts. They are not the norm today in the day we are talking about the side mounts were the norm. The 'N' mounts made by Weaver are still available and rings are available to position the scope low over the bore, where they belong on a hunting rig. Any scope mounts drilled aftermarket, into a M75 or M69(a) destroys a majority of the collector value. It does nothing to affect the rifles usability in the field. It will allow one to hunt with a really nice M75 sporter for very little..Just enjoy.. A note the guys at Brownells tech line can help identify which base might fill your need if you can measure the hole spacing in the rifle. Good luck..

[Antietamgw]

I have a '20's Savage 23B I would very much like to scope. But like you I will not drill and tap it. It IS factory tapped for a side mount. FINDING the correct side mount and required rings has futile... I was able to mount a tiny red dot as there is a single large hole tapped in the top of the receiver. I modified a base and using that one screw and red lock tite I mounted the base and that red dot with a single ring. Its working, but I worry about banging it and loosing its zero. Of coarse this would not work on a longer scope as the leverage would quickly defeat the single ring.
 
Good luck, It going to be fun and I will be watching your progress!
 

CW

Not to hijack the thread but here was my solution on my Savage 23's. It will probably work with other rifles, depending on what holes, dovetails already exist. Use a piece of dovetail or weaver base blank, make a dovetail slot filler, D&T it for a 6X48 screw or just call Williams and get a gib lock that will slide in the dovetail. Drill the base to match. That fits the rear sight dovetail. Use 1 or both of the existing receiver sight holes on the rear receiver ring to secure the back of the base. If anything, the base is too long but I'd rather look at that than extra holes.

 

[cwlongshot]

Excellent idea!!

I will look into that! I have a couple sticks of Weaver base... Being its one diameter and radius it's pretty easy too!  I like it!

I ain't drilling the 23! It's not worth all that much, I just hate to see a classic like that "swisscheesed".

CW