Author Topic: 54, 58, 60 or 62cal.?????? (Read 1476 times)

DLH · « **on:** December 28, 2003, 02:21:41 PM »

I have decided to build another flint deer gun. I will use it for deer in Ohio, ( longest shot about 65yds.) and Black bear over bait. Not in Ohio!!

Now back to the question; what cal. would you want for the hunting said game?
Also does anyone have Orion barrel Co. E-mail or web site? Does anyone else make a 60 or 62 cal. 42" barrel? Colerain is way too expensive!!! :-D :-D :-D

RCL · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2003, 04:43:26 PM »

You might try calling these folks (Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading), they show some of there guns as being available in .62 cal. They should have barrels or know where to get them.

http://www.avsia.com/tvm/

jh45gun · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2003, 06:04:13 PM »

Quote from: RCL

You might try calling these folks (Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading), they show some of there guns as being available in .62 cal. They should have barrels or know where to get them.

http://www.avsia.com/tvm/

At least the 54 and 58 are standard calibers so bullets and accessories are easier to get. I figure my 54 cal Is good for most large game and is a round ball gun. I would not hesitate to shoot a bear with it. I have found that even Lee REAL conicals shoot good in it. Jim

rollingb · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2003, 06:51:18 PM »

DLH,.... I've made "one-shot kills" on, moose, caribou, and black bear,... with an "Early Hawken" fullstock, .58 cal., 1"X42" Green Mountain barrel, L&R flintlock, .570 roundballs, and 120 grs. FFG Goex.

When we sold our home 8 miles from Tok AK,... a feller in Delta Junction AK bought thet rifle from me 'cause he had personaly seen "how fine she shot" on different occasions.

After move'n back here to Wyoming, I built anuther "Early Hawken" fullstock, in .54 cal. with 36" Green Mountain barrel but, with a percussin L&R lock,.... the "Swan" shot mighty "FINE" and I kilt a couple'a whitetail does with her, plus,.... she "brought home" a turkey or 2 (amongst other various "prizes") in the "nearly full year" thet I shot with her. The "Swan" is now in the arms of a friend of mine, and I built her "twin sister"(Cora) in .58 cal. this last summer.

I like .54's, .58's, and .62's (I ain't never built a .60 cal. but I'd like to sometime).

Bob/FLA · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2003, 01:58:35 AM »

MO BIGGER, MO BETTER
(It's an obsession) :-D

Super Rat · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2003, 05:53:53 AM »

For strictly deer and black bear, at 65 yards, I think any of those calibres will do good. (why only 65? a good rifle should get you out to 100...or are you going smoothbore? My Brown Bess, smooth bore, will keep them on a paper plate at 85 yards)

Personally I like a bigger bore just to make the gun lighter. !! No kidding. And, I just plain like big bores. I also figure you can always load a big bore down for light game, and get better results than trying to load a small bore up on big game.

I think in your situation I'd go .58, there is lots of .58 stuff around, and it's a really nice size. With a light/medium load it will work great at 65 yards on deer and blackies, but if you ever had a chance to hunt bigger game you'd be all set. (not saying a .54 doesnt' work great on big game) But if you just plain like the .60 and .62" bores, go for it, that's all the reason you need.

I just ordered my dream rifle, a Jeager, and I chose .62" because I hunt Elk, and we have some pretty giant Mule deer also. I almost went with .58, because I already have a .58 slug gun and a ball mould, but I have a dream about going to Alaska some day to hunt Grizz (not some giant 1200 pound Kodiac, just a medium sized bear) and figured .62 would be a little more better for that. The Alaska hunt may never happen, but it's something to....dream about.

On Colerain barrels, the kit I'm getting from Track of the Wolf has that barrel (swamped) as standard. You might want to look at their kits. The Jeager from the Track comes out about $100 less than a kit from TVM, if you add a Colerain barrel. The Track kit also comes standard with a best quality lock, whereas with TVM upgrading to a better lock is $40. The downside is that the TVM kits are more finished I believe, the Track kits more "in the rough", so there's a little more work involved with the Track kit, if thay makes a difference to you. Having said all that, I don't know if they have kits for the paticular gun you want to build. !!

Anyhow, this Jeager kit, with swamped Colerain barrel came out to about $679, whereas a most of the TVM kits are $550, and the Colerain barrel is a $200 option, which brings you up to around $750, add the better lock and you are up to almost $800.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2003, 09:16:25 AM »

Wow, I feel pretty good. I spent about $850 for a TVM with a Colerain bbl and a lock upgrade and that was In-the-White. Came all put together.

Are Colerains really that expensive? About $180 last I checked, and that was on par for any other swamped barrel.

Or were you comparing to straight octagon bbls?

I have to admit, I was hesitant to go with Colerain because they tend towards the fast end of twists, and I wanted one that would throw balls, and throw 'em FAST. Fast being 1900 fps or better in a .54.

Well, the Colerain 42" does just that and handles 'em really well. 2" groups at 100 yards.

Super Rat · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2003, 10:45:17 AM »

I tells ya it was a tough decision for me, I would have preferred a gun "in the white", but I really needed to pinch some pennies. If I had the $$$ I would have gone that route. It was a budget thing. So, I'm saving a couple bucks, but will have to do some detail work and be very very careful.

Right at the moment, TVM lists the Colerain barrel as a $200 option, so prices must have gone up since you last checked.?

What is the twist in your .54 barrel? The .62 I got is 1:66, do they rifle the .54 faster than that? Yep, I like fast balls too, and I'm looking forward to some groups that are a little bit tighter than my Bloody Bess thows at 100! Of course I don't suppose the Jeager will throw a very good shot pattern either.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2003, 11:14:48 AM »

The price TVM lists might be the cost for them to "make the kit" with a swamped bbl. The way they figure that is add $180 for the Colerain bbl, but then you subtract the $85 for the Green Mt that was going to go on the gun. Now you add $105 for the extra work it takes to make the channel fit a swamped bbl. That brings you to $200 over and above the cost of the base kit.

I think back when I ordered they charged $150 extra for a Colerain bbl. I couldn't figure out why they charged $30 less than what it would cost to just buy a Colerain bbl ($180 at the time). Then they explained that they subtract the cost of the Green Mt. bbl that would have been used. Duh

You wouldn't like my "dream rifle" its got the Colerain 42" bbl in "D" weight but with a .54 bore. Total weight of the gun comes out at 10.5 lbs! To tell you the truth, I'll probably switch to a "belt-pack" style for my possibles bag before I see the need for a lighter gun. Hanging the possibles bag from one shoulder causes more sore shoulder than carrying the gun does.

Rifling twist is 1:56" for a .54.

The guys I know who are real big-bore enthusiasts love Forsythe rifling. It's shallow groove and really, really slow. A .62 bore would probably have 1:96" twist with Forsythe rifling. They shoot them big ones at 1800 fps.

But if the Colerain .62 is anything like the .54 you've got nothing to worry about. Your .62 will be one helluva killing machine. At the faster velocities you may be considering putting some lead in the buttstock.

jh45gun · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:05:34 PM »

Quote from: Super Rat

I tells ya it was a tough decision for me, I would have preferred a gun "in the white", but I really needed to pinch some pennies. If I had the $$$ I would have gone that route. It was a budget thing. So, I'm saving a couple bucks, but will have to do some detail work and be very very careful.

Right at the moment, TVM lists the Colerain barrel as a $200 option, so prices must have gone up since you last checked.?

What is the twist in your .54 barrel? The .62 I got is 1:66, do they rifle the .54 faster than that? Yep, I like fast balls too, and I'm looking forward to some groups that are a little bit tighter than my Bloody Bess thows at 100! Of course I don't suppose the Jeager will throw a very good shot pattern either.

The Twist for my Green Mountain Barrel is 1 in 72 and is a premium barrel! They are fantastic for the money and if memory serves me right they are around 120/ 130 bucks. There are a lot of good barrel makers out there but for my money I wlll stick with a Green Mountain barrel they are tops in my book I have 3 of them. Jim

Super Rat · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:21:08 PM »

Well duh on me too, I never stopped to think about the inletting for the different barrel.

I think I would like your dream gun. I think I might "prefer" to carry my dream gun around all day, but I'm sure yours is a fine piece of shooting iron. I generally like shorter barrels, but I'd be thrilled to heft (or shoot!) that long tom 42" sucker.

It's not hard to get your possibles down to a couple belt pouches and into pockets. That's How I do it. As far as putting lead in my buttstock, I've usually got enough jackets and sweaters on to soak up the recoil! Of course, working up loads in the spring and summer....now that's another story!

jh45gun, I'm sure the Green Mountain barrel is a fine piece of work too. I wanted a swamped barrel, which meant either going optional on the TVM kit, or going with the Track kit.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2003, 06:11:54 PM »

I've got a 42", .62 caliber, swamped, Colerain barrel on an early New England long rifle and the rifle weighs just a tad over seven pounds. It's a line-for-line copy of a rifle built in the Connecticut River Valley around 1735 or 1740. The barrel goes from octagon to round and the gun has wonderful balance. I get 2" groups at 100 yards from a rest and it's a dream to carry. Despite the light weight, recoil isn't a problem. And fouling is less of a problem in the larger bore. I haven't hunted with it yet, but it's a great plinker and target rifle, and I've fired 20-30 shots at a time with no discomfort.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #12 on:** December 30, 2003, 04:26:59 AM »

Super Rat,

Yeah its fun to shoot. I love it. It's stocked on TVMs Early Virginia. Nice big buttplate. 100 grain loads are not punishing even in summer T-shirts.

Despite it's weight and length, I keep up with my brothers while doing drives in Wisconsin tagalder swamps. People puzzle at how it's possible to get through the brush with a 56" long gun. It's just one of those things that you "just do it". And you find out that it ain't that bad.

I know it wouldn't be that difficult to switch to a belt-bag rig. I just lug the shoulder bag around for the "style". I wear a blaze orange capote made from polar fleece. The hunting bag just adds to the set up.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #13 on:** December 30, 2003, 04:32:17 AM »

Filmokentucky,

42" .62 caliber bbl on a 7lb gun? How did you manage that?

Is the stock real thin?

Or do you trim a lot of weight going with an octagon-to-round style vs. a full octagon?

Mine is a full octagon swamped bbl. By my estimates, going from .54 to .62 in the same bbl profile would trim off a full pound. That would only bring my gun to about 9 lbs.

I suppose Colerain's full octagon 42" profile is their heavy duty bbl. Of all their swamped bbls this one has the least flair and is the thickest in the waist. So maybe it's just the profile?

filmokentucky · « **Reply #14 on:** December 30, 2003, 07:08:26 AM »

Black Jack, You save quite a bit of weight when you go from a full octa gon to a one-third octagon-two-thirds round barrel. And swamping saves a lot more. The stock is a piece of very well seasoned black walnut and is graceful but not as slim as say a Tennessee rifle would be. I suspect that it's that .62 caliber hole running up the middle that saves most of the weight, though.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #15 on:** December 30, 2003, 11:20:33 AM »

Hmm. Might have to consider a Colerain .62 bbl. Then I'd have two "drop-ins" for my gun.

Maybe if I know for sure an elk hunt is in my cards.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #16 on:** December 30, 2003, 11:56:29 AM »

Black Jaque,

A blaze orange capote? Where in tarnation did you find that? Inquiring minds need to know!

-Kees-

DLH · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2003, 02:16:55 PM »

Would anyone happen to have a recent MUZZLE BLAST, or MUZZLE LOADER magizine with Orion's NEW phone no. in it??
I'm gonna go 62 if I can get Jerry to make me one?

Thanks

Super Rat · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2003, 06:59:42 AM »

I'll tells ya what gots recoil....my .58 slug gun, 120 grains of FFFg, and a 625 grain slug.

Ouch. :shock:

Now THAT is recoil. And no, that's not my normal load, 90 to 100 grains of FFg is.

I don't reckon the Jeager will kick much worse than Bess with a tightly patched round ball and 110 grains of FFg. (her normal load is an even 100)

Recoil is fun. :lol:

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2004, 03:53:12 PM »

The blaze orange capote had to be made, not purchased. I had a devil of a time just finding a bolt of solid blaze orange fleece. I had to order it manufacturer direct! All the fabric stores carried was camoflage patterned orange fleece.

I looks sharp. And in B&W photos it shows up as white.

Oh, and it helps to have a wife willing and able to sew one up for ya. :wink:

DLH · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2004, 04:18:35 PM »

I just got back from the local WALMART,, They had a whole bolt of the BLAZE ORANGE POLAR FLEECE. at $6.00 a yd. I think!!!!!!

NO DO DO, THEY HAVE IT!!!!

BS · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2004, 12:28:18 PM »

Bigger is Better!

I started a .62cal. and ended up with .72 from "orion"

27" 1/18" tapered to 1", I wanted a hunting gun, not a bench model. Oh yes, at 7lbs. 6ozs. with 200 grains of FF, it kicks and has a muzzle blast. I had complete penitration at 20yds. on a doe this fall. Broke the right front leg and took the rear of the heart off. She still went 50 yds.

Maybe I should have used my 7ga................

All the BS aside, I would go for the .62........

rollingb · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2004, 01:47:41 PM »

BS

"Welcome"!!!! to Graybeards!!!!!!!

Good to see anuther "big bore lover" come on board!!

KING · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2004, 04:34:14 PM »

BS............From my end.................GLAD TO HAVE YA ABOARD...............You will not find a beter bunch of guys to talk with......stay safe...King