thoughts on AR's, also got my first ak!

[ebonitekid767]

So this past weekend we had a Bachelor party for my best buddy which consisted of everyone bringing their entire arsenal and several pounds of tannerite. Well this is what i noticed. There was probably 10 AR's there and I dont think there was one that didnt have some sort of problem throughout the afternoon/evening. Most of these guys are gun guys and generally take good care of their firearms so I dont feel like neglect was a issue. I watched one guy load up a magazine and on the very first shot snap off a piece of the bolt....... and almost everyone else couldnt get through a magazine with atleast 2-3 malfunctions. There was one AK sitting on the rack, and I watched SEVERAL hundred rounds get fired through it without one single problem, most of which were just load it up and fire as fast as possible. Well being the smart A$$ i am i said to the guy, hey.....trade you that savage axis for that there AK, and to my surprise he actually had a grandson who needed his first deer rifle and gladly accepted the offer. I guess where im going with this post is that I am glad that I actually had the chance to see AR's in action an just how unreliable they can be, I wanted to buy one in the worst way but geez for what i would have spent on a AR i can purchase 4000+ rounds for the AK........

[SwampThing762]

Between the AK and the AR, the AR family of weapons is superior quality....hence the pricetag.    A Smith and Wesson M&P-15 will run you $639.00 at Academy Outdoors, and that is with a top-quality magazine and excellent BUIS.     

The biggest limitation to the AR platform is the cartridge itself.  For a SHTF scenario, you want expanding SP bullets instead of ball ammo.    Paying $50.00 for the detanchable A2 would be a wise investment, as well.

ST762

[Dezynco]

Hmmm, makes me wonder what your buddies are doing wrong?
I've shot hundreds of rounds through both of my AR's without cleaning them or anything without any problems.  AR's will work completely filthy, but they will not run dry.  All of the moving parts must be oiled well.  Most of the time, feeding issues are magazine related, nothing to do with the operating system.  As a matter of fact, there is very little to go wrong with the operation of the AR, they are pretty simple.

[SHOOTALL]

So what ammo was used in the AR's ? JUNK ? POOR RELOADS ? What quality were the AR's ? Was booze involved ?

[ironglow]

  Something doesn't add up..    My grandson as a Marine armorer (Spec ops) had to keep all his Marine Spec Ops unit's weapons running during the worst combat conditions.  He did not have near the problems some seem to experience with ARs.  His unit's M16 platform series were at least as dependable as the AKs and a lot more accurate.
 
   I do hope these guys weren't using 5.56 ammo in .223 rifles..
   
     Today as a civilian gunsmith working for a major corporation, he works on many types of guns.  On his own time he builds custom ARs for select clientel.  His rifles are gaining a solid reputation among varmint and predator hunters.
   He posts here on GBO (not as often as I do), so here are some of Ironglowjr's completed rifles;
 
  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,252891.msg1099517788.html#msg1099517788

[cjclemens]

I'll be the first to call BS on this story if no one else will.   My plinker/coyote rifle has had over 2k of the cheapest ammo you can find through it without a single failure.  I've never even seen one have a failure that couldn't be directly attributed to abuse or neglect.  Today's AR is not the same rifle as it was during the Vietnam era - nor are they subjected to the same conditions.  The unreliable AR is a myth perpetuated by people with nothing better to do than pass around silly internet memes they pick up from other forums.

[SHOOTALL]

I'll be the first to call BS on this story if no one else will.   My plinker/coyote rifle has had over 2k of the cheapest ammo you can find through it without a single failure.  I've never even seen one have a failure that couldn't be directly attributed to abuse or neglect.  Today's AR is not the same rifle as it was during the Vietnam era - nor are they subjected to the same conditions.  The unreliable AR is a myth perpetuated by people with nothing better to do than pass around silly internet memes they pick up from other forums.

 
There are some off shore made guns that have a high failure rate just as some cheap AK's are jam a matics .

[cjclemens]

There are some off shore made guns that have a high failure rate just as some cheap AK's are jam a matics .

OK, I'll give ya that one....but all 10 guys brought cheap knockoffs and they all had 2 to 3 malfunctions per mag??  Wild exaggeration at very best, I say.

[ebonitekid767]

call it what you will, every man is entitled to his opinion.....I know what I had seen with my eyes and that alone makes me not want to purchase one. Is my opinion going to effect AR sales? nope......I was just sharing what I had experienced, didnt share it to start any flaming and for it to be bs. Most were DPMS and not sure on a few other brands, 1 was a remington R-25, alcohol was not involved and most were shooting bulk ammo.

[Dee]

I hear these kind of stories all the time, and just shake my head. I started instructing on weapons and tactics, in 1978 and did so the next 18 years. At retirement, I guess I had fired about everything police related, and I don't mean a few rounds. I mean in the thousands of rounds I have fired PERSONALLY, and the thousands & thousands of rounds I have supervised other officers firing, I have witnessed ONE malfunction, and it was due to a dry bolt. A little oil and the AR was up and running with not another hitch.
I have attended 2 week SWAT training schools where the ARs went two weeks with nothing more than oiling at the end of each day. Other depts. may have had malfunctions, but they kept the quite if they did, as I did not see them.
I have owned 2 original Colts, one an A1, and the other an A2 and in the thousands of rounds, thru both, never a malfunction. Four Bushmaster M4s. Same story, and I still have one of those.
The Colt A2 and I slept together in the Red River bottoms of the Oklahoma-Texas Border waitin on marijuana growers, and looking for their "patches". Hot, sweaty, and sandy, but always reliable.
I would question your buddies selection of brand of AR, their maintenance of the their ARs, their magazines for their ARs, and the ammo for their ARs. This is one more fishy story, to say the least.

[dukkillr]

Don't worry about it buddy.  The internet is full of experts.  For 30 years I've been around shotguns in the field.  I've seen a particular cheap brand fail significantly more than any other, but when I mention that experience a bunch of "experts" fly out of the woodwork recounting the heroic tales of the cases of shells they've fired under all conditions without a single incident.  I just smile and move on.
 
For what it's worth I have the Remington AR and like it a great deal.  I don't do a lot of volume shooting but it's hell on the various things that try and eat holes in my pond dams.  Seriously accurate, and seriously smooth.
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

I have shot both AR and AK . I would suggest if you use the sights at all you will find the AR  more accurate.

[turk762]

I would agree it was probly a lube issue. I took a police department M16 for a couple of weeks, full auto. It was dry as a bone ( from sitting in back of a hot squad for years) and dirty. I cleaned and lubed a little. I shot it with my brother full auto, never had a hicup. Not cleaning or lubing a week later shot it with a uncle 2 rounds full auto and failure to feed. We got some lube and lubed it up real good and full auto all the way, no more problems. I am used to my glock, they are not supposed to be lubed much. Each gun is diffrent.  I am new to the ARs myself and taking the dept. M16 thought me the importants of lube in these weapons. I have shot them my whole life (my uncles) but am new to owning and maintaining my own. And I by no means am weapons ignorant just like your friends.