Author Topic: Smith M1917 .45 ACP (Read 3722 times)

reliquary · « **on:** July 20, 2010, 11:12:51 AM »

I found a really nice Brazilian Contract M1917 a while back. It's been rebuilt, Parkerized, and had the barrel cut to about 3 1/2 inches, thus retains little or no collector value. But it is quite nice as a shooter.

Has anyone ever had any experience re-cylindering one of these things to .45 Colt? I'm looking for advice and suggestions.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2010, 01:47:19 PM »

I have seen a few M625 -5's done this way.
But the rim of the 45 ACP and the 1/2 or full moon clip are thicker than the rim of the 45 Colt.
That is why they have 45 Auto Rim. Basicly 45 Schofield with a really thick rim.
I think it would be easier for you to load 45 Auto Rim.
But a gun smith can chamber the gun to 45 Colt. the mouth of the case holds the rim against the firing pin.
Either way you go, Cutting the gun or buying 45 auto rim cases good luck.

shotgunner · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2010, 03:07:24 AM »

I agree that the 45AR is a better option. It has all the case capacity you need. With the 45 colt you end up with less then 100% of the case full of powder. The 45 AR will do anything, especially out of a short barrel, that the 45 Colt will do. You do not want to load that old S&W to the pressures of a modern Ruger. I am pretty sure Starline makes AR brass. You will save money and be happy I am sure. Shotgunner

Catshooter45 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2010, 06:07:14 AM »

Congrats on a fine piece!

And extra cylinder can be fitted to handle .45 Colt. However. Isn't there always a however?

If you hold the sixgun in your hand, look at the lower right hand corner of the cylinder. Just below it on the frame you'll see a small stud. If you look closley you'll see that the cylinder, if pushed to the rear will touch this stud.

Since the back of the .45 auto cylinder is shorter than the same thing in .45 colt (because the Colt rim is much thinner) that stud has to be ground back. Then all works fine.

Right up until you want to reinstall the ACP cylinder. Now that stud is kinda far away. It'll still work, probably, but that stud is the only thing keeping the cylinder from falling out of the gun so if it's not quite tall enough, well you can have problems.

Might work fine though, you won't know until you try.

Hope this helps.

Cat

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2010, 09:00:31 AM »

they were made in 1937 , got one that's been at a gunsmith since 1990 . Mine had 3 notches cut in the grip. It really was a bad feeling when i saw a program on the death squards they had that went around shooting children on the street at night .

reliquary · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2010, 03:50:22 AM »

Thanx to all for their replies!

I'm going with the Auto Rim brass instead of the new cylinder. I understand the need to hold the pressure down; 200 grain lead SWC with ~5 grains of Unique works really well in the ACP brass for a plinking load.

I saw that piece on the death squads...remember, the tool isn't responsible for what the user does.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2010, 11:46:31 AM »

but it can still bring on a cold chill

StrawHat · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2010, 01:58:28 AM »

In one of the Gun Digest Annuals there was an article by Ed Harris on fitting an extra cylider to the M1917. The frame lug is not cut but the 45 long Colt cylinder is relieved and the breech end to accomondate the existing lug. This allows both cylinders to be used.

When I converted my M28-2 from 357 to 45 ACP, I purchased a new frame lug and fit it to the frame so the 45 ACP cylinder would stop rearward travel at the appropriate spot.

The 45 AR is the 45 ACP with an appropriately thick rim to mimic the moonclip and allow extraction from the cylinder. Load data for the ACP is usable in the 45 AR but not the new "+P" style of loadings. I reload with Unique and the Keith 238 grain bullet (Lyman 454423) designed for the 45 AR. A good load and accurate in my ACP revolvers. Another good bullet is the SAECO #453, a 235 grain full wadcutter bullet. Cast hard and shot fast, it offers a lot of knock down power from the small cartridge. Of course, the Keith designed 454424 is never a bad choice either.

Range Rider · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2010, 11:54:05 AM »

Save your money and go with the .45 AR case. They are easy to get. The .45 Colt loading in this gun is a waste. The gun does not shoot all that well when converted to .45 Colt. The .45 AR is a fine load and can push a very heavy slug to the high end. When reloading for these guns I only load heavy loads in the AR cases. I would not want one of these dropped into an auto-loader. I have seen these old guns chamered in the English .45 Enfield which falls between the .45 Colt and the .45 AR. These can be made from .45 Colt brass and are very accurate with a little more power. S&W made these for the Brits back in day.

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2010, 04:01:10 PM »

I have several 45acp revolvers. I have two that are both 45acp and 45colt. Yes, the cylinder stop can be stepped to work with either cylinder. The 45colt cylinder must also be trimmed in the front and will no longer take xtra long bullets. The auto-rim is a great load, however the case is a little small for big loads of bulky powder. I use Unique in AR and it works fine.

P.A.

reliquary · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2010, 08:36:39 AM »

Thanks for all the input from everyone to my original question. I've been off the net for a few weeks and have not posted any replies.

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2010, 05:11:19 AM »

This is my Brazilian.
It's perfect in .45acp. And auto-rim is available if I need it.

Dan

Range Rider · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2010, 10:24:55 AM »

Dan you have the talent for making some fine guns. Sure looks like you have done it again. That is one fine little .45 carry gun.

RR

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2010, 03:32:43 PM »

She's a shooter! It was pretty much a pitted mess when I got it, so chopping her up wasn't a travesty. Still, even with a "gray" bore, she shoots well.

Dan

S.B. · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2011, 02:46:37 PM »

Quote from: Range Rider on September 12, 2010, 10:24:55 AM

Dan you have the talent for making some fine guns. Sure looks like you have done it again. That is one fine little .45 carry gun.

RR

Quote from: DanChamberlain on September 11, 2010, 05:11:19 AM

This is my Brazilian.
It's perfect in .45acp. And auto-rim is available if I need it.

Dan

Quote from: DanChamberlain on September 11, 2010, 05:11:19 AM

This is my Brazilian.
It's perfect in .45acp. And auto-rim is available if I need it.

Dan

Dan, would you happen to know the smith who preformed the work on your gun?
Steve

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2011, 08:41:51 AM »

Here is a 525 [45colt] I had snubbed. No ejector shroud, colt style.

P.A.

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2011, 11:50:49 PM »

Steve

The work was done by a deputy sheriff from St. Clair County, in illinois. He's an amateur smith who took on the project and did a really nice job. He's not a pro, just a hobbyist.

Dan

zoner · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:26:32 AM »

what's wrong with the 45acp.....do you just want something different?

reliquary · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2011, 07:16:10 AM »

Finally got into the 20th century on technology...got a digital camera, figured out how to use it, and figured out how to post a picture here...in case you're wondering: yes, I realize it's the 21st century already. Just not there yet.

Here's the Brazilian I have. A really nice shooter, it works really well with moderate-velocity loads. Took me quite a while to find Auto-Rim brass and I use it mainly for handmade snake loads.

S.B. · « **Reply #19 on:** April 23, 2011, 03:25:09 PM »

Quote from: DanChamberlain on January 08, 2011, 11:50:49 PM

Steve

The work was done by a deputy sheriff from St. Clair County, in illinois. He's an amateur smith who took on the project and did a really nice job. He's not a pro, just a hobbyist.

Dan

Dan, I can remember a few decades back when a fellow from Chicago area would come down with his watch maker friend to shoot one of these at Chief City Shooters Club IPSC matches.
Steve

Buckeye · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:38:50 PM »

I picked this one up a few years back...3.5 inch barrel ..true DAO ,parkerized alot of internal work very smooth...

AtlLaw · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:37:51 AM »

Quote from: Buckeye on February 22, 2012, 05:38:50 PM

I picked this one up a few years back...

Geeese, I'd love to see the pics!

reliquary · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:31:52 AM »

Buckeye:

A question has been in the back of my mind for quite a while, and maybe you're the one to ask...what is the utility/desirability of a DAO revolver? Input from others is OK...but I'm not trying to initiate an argument.

I've trained myself since beginning handgunning (50+ years ago) to cock a revolver as I draw it and fire at least the first shot single-action. The semi-autos are carried cocked and locked.

I routinely smooth the lockwork of all my guns, and some of them are so "worn-in" that they have respectably light DA pulls. Not that I can't shoot DAO, but it's just not my first choice.

StrawHat · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2012, 12:53:02 AM »

Quote from: reliquary on February 24, 2012, 10:31:52 AM

Buckeye:

A question has been in the back of my mind for quite a while, and maybe you're the one to ask...what is the utility/desirability of a DAO revolver? Input from others is OK...but I'm not trying to initiate an argument...

When I started shooting revolvers, I learned to shoot by cocking the hammer. When I started competition, PPC, I learned that a full double action stroke was more comfortable and accurate for me. Even at what some folks call long range, the double action stroke is what I find works best. Not sure if that answers your query but...

reliquary · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2012, 02:36:23 AM »

StrawHat: close enough. Thanks.

I'm tempted to say, "Different strokes for different folks", but I won't.

I viewed a demo by the legendary Bill Jordan, back in the 60s, where he shot full-power .357s DAO; learned then that practice was the key...I've never tried DAO much beyond SD range, though.

Buckeye · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2012, 09:21:48 AM »

Quote from: reliquary on February 24, 2012, 10:31:52 AM

Buckeye:

A question has been in the back of my mind for quite a while, and maybe you're the one to ask...what is the utility/desirability of a DAO revolver? Input from others is OK...but I'm not trying to initiate an argument.

I've trained myself since beginning handgunning (50+ years ago) to cock a revolver as I draw it and fire at least the first shot single-action. The semi-autos are carried cocked and locked.

I routinely smooth the lockwork of all my guns, and some of them are so "worn-in" that they have respectably light DA pulls. Not that I can't shoot DAO, but it's just not my first choice.

Im sorry for the late reply...I own two DAO revolvers one being the S&W Brazilian contract the other a 642....I've owned a few others in the past...As smooth as this gun operates..It really doesn't need a hammer...DAO is all that is needed..I have a couple of Rugers (Speed six & a Police six) that are scary smooth ..but they have hammers and will always have hammers....

Buckeye · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2012, 10:08:07 AM »

Also in a SD ...when useing a revolver...you should only use the revolver in a DA mode....do not cock the hammer back...so when practicing with a Revolver that you carry for SD ..only practice in DA mode.....hope this helps....

reliquary · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:19:17 AM »

I'm pretty old and set in my ways and getting to where I'm easily confused, and getting to where I'm easily confused, and will just stick to what I've practiced.