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Offline noyb72

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6mmR AI
« on: February 27, 2012, 08:46:05 PM »
So, it's been a while since I've posted anything on here. Navy's had me really busy. Anyways, I've been reading a lot about the 356 builds and I like really odd stuff so I hatched this idea.

The 444 is a rimmed 06 case and the 243 chamber can be cleaned up to 6mmAI (Quick says so, so it is so.) So how about running the 444 through a 6mmAI die (with several steps down to get their of course,) and using the 444 shell holder and the 6mmAI die?


If no one can see a problem with this, I just might do it on a light weight.

Ron
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Offline Couger

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 11:13:44 PM »
Quote from: noyb72
So, it's been a while since I've posted anything on here. Navy's had me really busy. Anyways, I've been reading a lot about the 356 builds and I like really odd stuff so I hatched this idea.

The 444 is a rimmed 06 case and the 243 chamber can be cleaned up to 6mmAI (Quick says so, so it is so.) So how about running the 444 through a 6mmAI die (with several steps down to get their of course,) and using the 444 shell holder and the 6mmAI die?

If no one can see a problem with this, I just might do it on a light weight.  Ron

No problems per se, and if your 'wildcat' is gonna be something built from a .444 case my post my be moot .....
 
The 6mm Remington is made by necking a 7X57 Mauser case to .243 diameter w/o much else.  But when blown out to a 'straight' case with a 40 degree shoulder, who-la and its A.I. improved!
 
But also consider that Norma offers rimmed 7X57 brass.  If you necked that 7X57rimmed down to 6mm, then fired with a mild but firm load in an Ackley chamber, would that give you what you're looking for?  Thanks for your service and welcome home! 
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 11:34:22 PM »
Morning and THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!
 
Nothing physically jumps out at me saying no...
BUT be sure you look into costs. Going wild cat, IE paving inroadsinto new cases is expensive when you go buy dies...  Its cheaper to go with something others have done before. You could still be the only one on the block with that caliber but costs could also be a small precentage of what they would have been...  Just a thought.
 
Good luck and post up if you do go for it. I am sure we would like to read and watch how it unfolds!  ;)
 
CW
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 12:26:57 AM »
noyb
 
Hello here from a former Squid.   I have a 308x444M and I have fireformed a lot of this brass. The necking down form 444 to 308 is done in one step with a 308Win size die and then you fire form.  I have even necked down and fireformed 444M brass that had been shot many times and this worked without a hitch.  I did NOT anneal the brass first.  If I can remember, no sure bet,  I will take a piece of the 444M brass, neck it down to 30 cal and then neck it down in a 243 Win die.  It isn't what you want to build but it should be a good indicator of how this brass will reduce to 6mm.  If I don't post back in a few days on this send me a PM.  Should be close on lenght when finished fireforming as I would expect the 444M brass to growth a few thousands.

Note that new 444M brass is pushing $1 a piece and with Remington/Marlin stopping production of the 444M lever gun I would expect further price escalation.

 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 01:27:53 AM »
Welcome and Thanks for your service!
 As much as I like my Handi's I personally would not recommend a hot rod 6mm in one.I have a 6mm AKI in a very accurate Model 700 that is very accurate (.016 groups) .It shoots 70 gr bullets at over 4000 fps. The bad news it it needs the barrel set back about every 300 rounds to maintain this level of accuracy. This would not be possible in a Handi.There is no way to set the barrel back and re-chamber it unless it is a custom stub barrel.
 I would recommend a 25-06 in a Handi, I have 2 that are very accurate and fun to shoot.
 Also have a rimmed series in the works based on the 307/356 cases. When the reamer gets here I will post the results.
 Again Thanks for your Service and Welcome Aboard GBO ;D
George
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 05:19:17 AM »
I don't see any problems with your thoughts Ron, the 6mmAI will definately clean up the 243 chamber, I have two of em, an Ultra and an Optima Elite,  I use a Hornady Hydraulic form die to form 6mm Rem brass tho, it requires a solid shell holder with no opening for priming, but I'll run a piece of 444 brass thru the FL die and see how it goes for ya.

Tim
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Offline noyb72

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 08:41:01 AM »
Thanks for all the replies!

As far as burning out the barrel, I doubt it. This will be carried a lot and shot rarely. It will also kill things with heavier bullets (one reason I want the 6mmAI vs the 243.) I, as all of us I'm sure, would like a 6.5 BJAI for this purpose, but this will still be a fantastic gun.

Norma brass is fantastic, but spendy. It is nice to have options for brass, unless of course the rim configuration between 444 and 7x57 rimmed ! That would make me decide, and I hate that.

Last but not least, I have a close relative who has recently finished school as a CNC machinist. He also finished QA and a few other things. He works down the road and has made reamers, guages and dies that are accurate to +/- .0001 or something smaller than I can imagine.  He says he can get me into a new caliber for 30 bucks of material. No, he won't do work for other people.

Thanks for all the replies, I think this is something I'm gonna do.

Ron
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 10:24:22 AM »
Quote from: noyb72 on February 28, 2012, 08:41:01 AM
Thanks for all the replies!

As far as burning out the barrel, I doubt it. This will be carried a lot and shot rarely. It will also kill things with heavier bullets (one reason I want the 6mmAI vs the 243.) I, as all of us I'm sure, would like a 6.5 BJAI for this purpose, but this will still be a fantastic gun.

Norma brass is fantastic, but spendy. It is nice to have options for brass, unless of course the rim configuration between 444 and 7x57 rimmed ! That would make me decide, and I hate that.

Last but not least, I have a close relative who has recently finished school as a CNC machinist. He also finished QA and a few other things. He works down the road and has made reamers, guages and dies that are accurate to +/- .0001 or something smaller than I can imagine.  He says he can get me into a new caliber for 30 bucks of material. No, he won't do work for other people.

Thanks for all the replies, I think this is something I'm gonna do.

Ron

WELL THAT CHANGES THINGS!!!  ::) ::) ::)
 
GO for it!! 
 
A dozen years ago I built a Mauser 98 and I wanted a 6.5... Now I very much like the shoulder and neck of the 300 Savage combined with minimum body taper all in a 63mm/06 case... There was a couple close to what I wanted, but none exact. I contacted Redding as we worked well with a sales guy there and the costs shocked me. That was with a substantial rebate from my firend... Long story short, I settled on a slightly modified 6.5/06. I loaded up some cases and sent them, my reamer and a set of Redding dies to my friend. They modified the reamer , recut my dies with it firm my cases and returned all to me... I was out a couple hundred bucks for all.Thats dies, the reamer and the modifications. Pretty cheap actually.
 
Good luck with your project! I for one would enjoy reading about it if you have a chance to make a thread on the project.  ;)
 
CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 11:42:05 AM »
Necking the 444 down with a 6mmAI die doesn't work, but I think going progressively down to 358/356 Win, then to 308 Win then 243/6mm might work, I tried 308 Win then the 6mmAI and it wants to collapse the neck into the  shoulder.

Tim
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 6mmR AI
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 01:19:46 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on February 28, 2012, 11:42:05 AM
Necking the 444 down with a 6mmAI die doesn't work, but I think going progressively down to 358/356 Win, then to 308 Win then 243/6mm might work, I tried 308 Win then the 6mmAI and it wants to collapse the neck into the  shoulder.

Tim
thanks tim,  you just saved me from squashing some of my 444M brass. ;)
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.
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