Author Topic: Load data for a .357 Herrett in a Carbine barrel (Read 1321 times)

dave29 · « **on:** February 20, 2012, 10:09:29 AM »

I recently acquired an H&R 16.5" .357 Herrett barrel in a trade.

I have never reloaded for the Herrett before and it seems like all of the data that I am finding for this round is for a 10" barrel. Most of the data I'm finding is using H4227 in the 10" barrel. I'm thinking I probably need a little slower powder for the 16.5" barrel, but I can't find any data.

FYI, I will be shooting 180gr Hornady SSP's.

Any of you guys out there load this round in a carbine barrel? Any starting load data would be appreciated.

I have several powders in my inventory, but I wanted to get some ideas first before I tried anything.

Thanks!

nova71 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2012, 11:20:50 AM »

I use to load 357 Herrett for a 14" Contender .It's been a while back but I'll check and see if I still have the data. shouldn't make much difference between 14" and 16.5".

dave29 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2012, 12:04:28 PM »

Quote from: nova71 on February 20, 2012, 11:20:50 AM

I use to load 357 Herrett for a 14" Contender .It's been a while back but I'll check and see if I still have the data. shouldn't make much difference between 14" and 16.5".

I appreciate it, thanks!

Flash · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2012, 01:14:24 PM »

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w357herr.html

This should work fine in a carbine barrel

Larry L · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2012, 03:44:45 PM »

I'm going to assume you MIGHT have some issues with that heavy of a bullet as the Thompson Center Reloading Manual ( betcha didn't know there was one) only lists bullets to 170gr. But here's some of the data for a 14" barrel.
26.0grs 296 powder, 158grs Sierra JSP, Fed 215= 2274'ps
26.0grs 2400 powder, " " " " =2340'ps
27.5grs IMR4227 powder, 170gr Sierra FMJ, CCI250,= 2247'ps
25.5grs 296 powder, " " ,= 2178'ps

They don't recommend any lighter bullets out of the 14" barrel as bullet construction can't stand up to the velocities. I've run some 110gr bullets out of mine and all I got for the trouble was a small grey streak going down range that ran out before it got to 50 yds. Actually, nothing got to 50 yds as the bullet started to come apart right out of the barrel. Considering a 10" barrel can push that bullet at 2550'ps, I was probably getting another 150'ps from the 14". You'll probably get more than that.

dave29 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2012, 04:02:38 PM »

Thanks for the info. I have some W296, I will try to work up some loads with that.

nova71 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2012, 04:23:55 PM »

I used 26gr of 2400 and the Hornady #3572 160gr .357 JTC-SIL bullet in handgun silhouette in my Contender with a 14" barrel... it was my favorite load, did a nice job on the 100yd rams if I did my part

dave29 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2012, 04:58:50 PM »

Thank you for the info too!

I am going to have to get out a powder burn rate chart and compare some powders.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2012, 11:35:25 PM »

I also had a 14" Herrett and found H4227 to be my best powder. H110 and 296 also worked, but H4227 was THE Herrett powder in my barrel.

Quote

I use to load 357 Herrett for a 14" Contender .It's been a while back but I'll check and see if I still have the data. shouldn't make much difference between 14" and 16.5".

Right on!

CW

Old Syko · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:01:46 AM »

H4227 is THE powder alright but the problem is it is no longer available. So unless you already have a good lifetime supply or can find one it may not be worth the trouble to test. I've tried everything that is even remotely usable in the Herrett and found 296 and 2400 satisfactory with slugs up to 160 grain but of little use with heavier slugs. In your case I would consider 4198 with the 180s and the longer barrel. I had good results when using Mag primers with this combination.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:09:53 AM »

H4227 has been discontinued??? I did not know that!! I don't use it much anymore but will
Look next time I'm buying powder!

Was this recently?

CW

Old Syko · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:25:37 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on February 21, 2012, 04:09:53 AM

H4227 has been discontinued??? I did not know that!! I don't use it much anymore but will
Look next time I'm buying powder!

Was this recently?

CW

It was mentioned in a thread or two here some time back. Within the last year or so. Even though I can't prove anything, I do know it is no longer available from anyone I buy from such as Powder Valley. I'm glad I have a good supply.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:41:46 AM »

Now that I think on it I think I remember reading some such... Guess it just didn't register...

I will look too I like the powder!!

CW

Grumulkin · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2012, 08:06:36 AM »

1. What works well in a 10 inch barrel will also probably work well in a 16 inch barrel.

2. My 10 inch 357 Herret likes IMR 4227 over CCI 250 (large rifle magnum) primers with 158 gr. bullets.

dave29 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:40:03 AM »

Quote from: Old Syko on February 21, 2012, 04:01:46 AM

H4227 is THE powder alright but the problem is it is no longer available. So unless you already have a good lifetime supply or can find one it may not be worth the trouble to test. I've tried everything that is even remotely usable in the Herrett and found 296 and 2400 satisfactory with slugs up to 160 grain but of little use with heavier slugs. In your case I would consider 4198 with the 180s and the longer barrel. I had good results when using Mag primers with this combination.

Thanks for the recommendation on the powder for the heavier bullet.

dave29 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:40:57 AM »

Is IMR4227 and H4227 the same or close?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:16:18 AM »

Quote from: dave29 on February 21, 2012, 09:40:57 AM

Is IMR4227 and H4227 the same or close?

It is close, it is NOT THE SAME!! BUT NOT interchangeable!!

Many times you will see them listed for a given caliber right next to each other. They have a close burn rate, BUT so does XMP5744 and AA1680... They are all close in burn rates.

CW

Old Syko · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2012, 11:27:01 AM »

Quote from: dave29 on February 21, 2012, 09:40:57 AM

Is IMR4227 and H4227 the same or close?

Like CW said, they aren't the same just close. This is a game where close can get you hurt. You will never get the velocity from IMR that you get from H4227. Especially with the heavier slugs.

mbopp · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2012, 04:48:45 PM »

About 1980 or so there was an article in TAR where they took some TC barrels and modified them for pressure measurements. It turned out that some of the "accepted" loads were pretty hot and over TC's recommended pressure limit of 40,000 (CUP?) for a 30-30 case head. I think the Hodgdon website has those loads listed.
Anyway, I use 30gr of I4198 and a 158gr JSP or 29gr of the same powder with a 180gr Hornady. They chrono'd at 2050 and 1950FPS, respectively.
And I seem to recall some cautions on using 296, something about "ringing" the chamber. The best guess was that 296 should not be used in bottleneck cartridges due to some weird detonation.

By a strange coincidence I4198 works well in the 218 Bee barrel I have. And I use 20gr of I4198 and hard cast .358" bullets for practice loads. I added a Lyman "M" die to my set to flare the case mouths for both cast and jacketed bullets.

The Speer #9 manual had 357H loads but they were on the warm side. How else do you think they got 35 Rem velocities out of a smaller case and shorter barrel? Ain't no free lunch.

dave29 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2012, 10:50:45 AM »

Any other load data before I go powder shopping?

ga41 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2012, 04:52:08 PM »

I used H4227 in my 170 Sierra JHC loads and IMR4198 in my Hornady 200gr loads...was a 14" TC, shot pretty good too

ga41 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2012, 04:55:19 PM »

Pretty much mirrors my observations, I remember VERY lose primer pockets after 2 reloads....backed off those loads..

Quote from: mbopp on February 22, 2012, 04:48:45 PM

About 1980 or so there was an article in TAR where they took some TC barrels and modified them for pressure measurements. It turned out that some of the "accepted" loads were pretty hot and over TC's recommended pressure limit of 40,000 (CUP?) for a 30-30 case head. I think the Hodgdon website has those loads listed.
Anyway, I use 30gr of I4198 and a 158gr JSP or 29gr of the same powder with a 180gr Hornady. They chrono'd at 2050 and 1950FPS, respectively.
And I seem to recall some cautions on using 296, something about "ringing" the chamber. The best guess was that 296 should not be used in bottleneck cartridges due to some weird detonation.

By a strange coincidence I4198 works well in the 218 Bee barrel I have. And I use 20gr of I4198 and hard cast .358" bullets for practice loads. I added a Lyman "M" die to my set to flare the case mouths for both cast and jacketed bullets.

The Speer #9 manual had 357H loads but they were on the warm side. How else do you think they got 35 Rem velocities out of a smaller case and shorter barrel? Ain't no free lunch.